Simple indeed
Sister, typo.
bronze dragons and time magic should be removed from the game. their presence complicates lore so much.
Dwarves should lead the Alliance.
Gnomes and mechagnomes have the best aesthetics in the game.
the hype for void war was ruined for me in bfa. Xal’atath is nice, but are we really comparing an eye stuck in a dagger to eldritch horrors the size of entire cities?
Shadolwands has the best looking zones in the entire game. Except Korthia.
Anduin, Jaina, Sylvanas and Thrall should permanently retired/appear as third-line characters.
night elves and goblins are the best races 
Elune should become a hybrid of all cosmic forces and be our introduction to the first ones or even be one of them.
And my crazy speculation : Life is the smartest and most cunning cosmic force. They managed to put their agents into the patheon of Order (Eonar) Death (Winter queen) and possibly Light (if Elune or An’she turns out to be one of them)
I have basically just 1 big hot take from which all the others follow;
Lore was in majority ruined by pandering to alliance
- Earliest sign of the lore going bad was Varian’s reintroduction in Wotlk; a complete copy of Thrall’s backstory and the most artificially created ‘rambo’ try hard out of like a Saturday morning cartoon with a samurai haircut. Ugh.
- Removing Thrall as Warchief essentially destroyed Horde lore; Thrall WAS the heart and soul of the ‘new’ Horde and its and the Orc race’s main protagonist. “lol he is a neutral now’”
- Absolute SHAT SHOW of Warchiefs for no reaosn essentially was defiling the corpse of Horde Lore, Garrosh, dead, Vol’jin, dead, Sylvanus became a re-hash of Garrosh just to drive home how creatively bankrupt blizzard are while consistently pandering their innards out to Alliance. NONE of that should have happend. The only way the Horde could have surived the removal of thrall was if Garrosh was built up into a worth replacement; instead the opposite happend. Now at this point Horde lore is so ruined it is totally irrelevant if Thrall even did comeback. Too little too late. You ruined it beyond repair Blizzard and NOTHING could ever make me want to come play the retail World of Warcraft ever again and I despise you for so savagely desecrating a once awesome faction beyond salvaging. EVERYONE who had any hand in any of those decisions should be fired in complete disgrace.
- Void Elves. Vomits
And it has in a way even made the Alliance worse. Alliance’s biggest problem is that they were always too noble bright, too generic goody too shoes, in 2 words, f-ing lame. Basically that is now more true of the Alliance than ever and now there isn’t even a foil for them worth noting in the lore now that the Horde has had its corpse desecrated and burned. Everything about WoW lore is poorer for essentially 14 years of Alliance pandering.
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Eh screw that. That is precisely what I like about the Alliance, it is the Overwatch of Warcraft. It is suppose to be bright and generally goody too shoes with sometime splashes of Blackwatch that it has to overcome.
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So you like power rangers too then? I guess there are some people who like their pasta plain. Most people find it pretty lame though I think. If nothing else Alliance is waaaay more generic than Overwatch is.
But anyway is the lore really better if its just World of Alliance Pandering and not World of Warcraft?
Honestly? Yeah, I liked the power rangers. I am honestly not sure of anyone who actively hated them.
More of a spaghetti dude myself personally.
And why would I care about what other people think? Especially made up “most people”.
We have a gay pirate/spymaster. A millennium old priest-prophet. A council of formerly bickering dwarves. A old wolf who will bare his fangs at anyone who threatens his people but is a soft puppy when it comes to his wife. A priestess who nearly lost herself and her people but is now in the process of healing(along with her people). The greatest tinker who has a heart of gold not just for his people but for the Alliance as a whole.
I think we are fine in the eclectic group of heroes division.
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Doubling down on a hot take: Lich King Arthas was a weakling with a big sword and a big army, and he could easily have been annihilated by almost any other big tier lore character in the franchise in a one-on-one battle, like Jaina, Malfurion, Thrall, or Thalyssra. His power was in his army alone, and I want to scream at all the cringey WC3-obsessed man-tweens who want to think he had any respectable amount of individual power.
Did you know do halls of Reflection? Jaina was losing her one on one fight with him and we all had to run.
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I guess that is all I need to hear then; obviously I’m never going to find common ground with someone who defends Power Rangers being a role model for WoW lore as a good thing. I can be confidently at peace the majority of the playerbase would not agree with you as that is simply not true to WoWs darker tone roots or even the name ‘Warcraft’.
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Dude, we literally turn dragons into sheep back in Warcraft 2. Warcraft, while it always had alot of dark tones always had lighter one as well. Heck, you feel like the kind of dude that complained that Gnomes/Goblins were added and ruined its “medieval” theme. Warcraft as a setting has always been malleable and while some people dislike it for the clear whiplash it gives them, I personally think its just a feature that lets the devs whatever story they want. Hell, Mists of Pandaria is generally regarded as one of the better expansions of Warcraft for a reason.
Rofl. Tell that to Illidan.
like Jaina, Malfurion, Thrall, or Thalyssra
Jaina no way, Malufurion and Thrall maybe just because they are literally probably in the top 4 strongest ‘mortals’ who have ever lived in the Lore. Thalyssra literally didn’t exist in the lore till almost a decade after Arthas already died in WotlK so just cringe to even bring up at all.
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Dude, we literally turn dragons into sheep back in Warcraft 2.
Having moments of comedic relief to relieve tension is standard in just about everything but historical war dramas. Overall Warcraft 1-3 were about WAR where dozens died every single mission and cities burned. Some froo froo power rangers trash it was not. Until recently.
I personally think its just a feature that lets the devs whatever story they want.
Devs are paid to make the game for the consumer and not for themselves. This is basic. And the consumers are turning away from WoW retail specifically because of the changes in direction. Money talks.
Hell, Mists of Pandaria is generally regarded as one of the better expansions of Warcraft for a reason.
From a lore perspective, no, Pandaria was not well received and was a TERRIBLE expansion. In fact on Lore it might be one of the most criticized xpacs ever for 1, Kung Fu Pandas, and for 2, its treatment of Garrosh.
Whether MoP was considered a ‘good’ xpac is a hotly debated but the reasons people do give for it being good never have anything to do with lore, Rather their reason almost always have to do with Pandaria being a unique and interesting place to quest relative to everything we had seen before and how class gameplay felt like it was well balanced between Classic simplicity and Modern retail overload. But even then most of these better views of MoP are in hindsight relative to the very disappointing xpacs that was Cata before and then followed by WoD, BFA, Shadowlands, and now Dragonflight with only Legion being a decent xpac in a long time.
But from a Lore perspective MoP belongs on the failure list with Cata, BFA, Shadowlands, and Dragonflight. WoD and Mop are kind of opposites; WoD had decent lore but terrible xpac specific things like Garrisons. MoP had awful lore but good gameplay and zones.
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Let me be dramatic for my hot button fixation. In a very literal sense i know why. I just think they’re entirely wrong and are in need of correction
Cough
I mean, they’re totally valid and i’m glad they got their moment with their character. I’ll just be over here miserable that the character I’ve wanted since The Cataclysm novel and the one Accidental quest doesn’t exist and seemingly will never exist.
At least he still lives on in my Freind’s OCxCanon Ship art that is currently the only valid Garrosh Interpretation I accept. and I will accept no Substitutes
And that shows how much you follow power rangers. There are version/storylines of the power rangers that go alot darker. Hell, their anniversary one showed the Yellow Ranger being killed. The two thing that is true about both is 1) the good guys will never for no one reason that that ends the story. And 2) the bad guys will always lose because that is the fun catharsis everyone wants from both.
I would also point out unlike the RTS you can’t simply make new cities to burn and pillage in World of Warcraft. We only have so many cities and towns and anyone of them that gets destroyed takes literal decades to replace.
Lol, aside from the die hard Horde no one cares about Garrosh. And in terms of world building and lore, Pandaria probably tops most expansions.
And that shows how much you follow power rangers.
Christ am I actually talking to someone who ‘follows’ power rangers? Is this what it takes to be an Alliance fan these days? No wonder you’re a dying breed…
Lol, aside from the die hard Horde no one cares about Garrosh.
You do realize on both Retail and Classic eras Horde is the more played faction right? 55% of players on Classic eras play Horde while somewhere between 60% to 64.5% play Horde on Retail…
. And in terms of world building and lore, Pandaria probably tops most expansions.
Considering how bad xpacs have been for a while that isn’t setting the bar high anyway; and besides the lore was easily the WEAKEST and WORST aspect of MoP according to most people and not a reason anyone typically praises it.
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Casually, Its more like when when I see interesting things about, I read it. Besides, it was a literal anniversary special from netflix. Nothing wrong with abit of nostalgia.
You mean the blood elves/nightborne and vulpera? As for classic, I dont care enough to see if your stats are correct but pretty sure the Alliance ones are popular enough they got some of the world first kills, so yeah.
Casually, Its more like when when I see interesting things about, I read it. Besides, it was a literal anniversary special from netflix. Nothing wrong with abit of nostalgia.
Mhm, pretty sure ‘power rangers nostalgia’ was pretty far from what warcraft has always been until recently. In fact the most accurate description would in fact be something like ‘Warhammer lite’ since it was all inspired by Warhammer who Blizzard originally approached to make a game on their IP before making up their own copy when that fell through. Literally the history of Starcraft/Warcraft origins is contrary to everything you are rooting for in regards to Power Ranger-fication of WoW lore.
And more to the point the dive on WoW retail player numbers shows its a failing new direction the lore has gone in.
You mean the blood elves/nightborne and vulpera?
Blood Elves are the single most popular race, not unlike Night Elves who are the 2nd most popular. Blood elves are most popular precisely because they are NOT typical goodie goodie generic elves.
Vulpera are only #10 most popular and Nightborne only #14th most popular. Funny how you didn’t mention Void Elf Vomits (most pandering move in WoW history) which is more popular than both at #9.
Of the other 6 top 10, 5 are Horde, Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, Undead, and Zandalari Trolls take spots #3, #5, #6, #7, and #8. 7 of the 10 most popular races are Horde and 2 out of the 3 alliance ones in the top 10 are elves while only 1 of the hordes 7 in the top 10 is an elf race. Looks like Alliance are relying on ‘elf simps’ a lot more than Horde to carry their numbers.
Oh, and it also shows all the races by average ilvl on this website. The top 5 by ilvl average are all Horde, while 4 out of the bottom 5 by ilvl are Alliance, which seems to suggest aside from just character count the Horde character are played much more and reach higher levels on average than Alliance. Per Wowanalytica
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They have literally not been that since at least the end of Burning Crusade.
And they have made it their own, goofiness and all.
You do realize the current end of Starcraft is literally the three factions ended up in a state of truce/maybe even peace and cooperation? Oh, exactly like how Warcraft currently is with the factions all working together.
And I going to go with a simple the factions were so imbalanced for so long its most hardcore player base ended up Horde. Things like that will take along time(if any considering the MMO isn’t exactly a growing genre) to change.
In any case, the factions are(mostly) at peace and I dont see any faction war stories for at least until the world soul saga ends, which is what? 2030? Yeah good luck on your little crusade for change.
For races literally added in less then 6 years ago that is actually impressive.
People wanted high elves on the Alliance. Obviously they would always be popular.
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You’re entirely wrong here.
Whatever you mean by ‘froo froo power rangers trash’, I’m guessing you’re trying to say that in the ‘new lore’ we see people banding together, dropping old hatreds, working together to fight the ‘big bad’.
That’s what WC3 was, and WC2 was in the Human campaign.
This is nothing new to Warcraft at all.
Nothing past WC1 has any connection to Warhammer at all.
Warcraft had distanced itself from Warhammer completely by the time of WC2 and by WoW the two franchises have no similarity to one another.
Just because WC1 was initially meant to be a Warhammer game doesn’t mean that Warcraft should abandon everything its built by itself to start following this basic ‘Warhammer’ idea of story writing, which it never did to begin with.
This is entirely based on assumption, we don’t know the actual numbers of how many people are playing retail, only how many are raiding consistently.
The people who made ‘Kung Fu Panda’ complaints don’t care about the actual writing beyond aesthetic, and their arguments have 0 legs to stand on. What does that even mean as an argument about the writing.
I feel that the vast majority of people actually liked MoP’s story.
Seems like many of the people on this forum point to it as one of the better expansions.
Definitely the best expansion to ever center around the ‘faction conflict’ as a story point, and portrayed it interestingly enough.
Also, ‘modern retail overload’ is such a contrived talking point that people talk about all the time. Some classes are extremely simple to play, some classes are slightly more difficult. What retail has is a plethora of options, not ‘overload’ necessarily.
Cata’s overall world lore was fine (main story sucked).
WoD’s story was terrible and brought nothing to the table.
Almost like Horde racials have always been superior in most gameplay scenarios compared to Alliance racials…
Almost like that’s the reason they added cross-faction guilds and raiding to combat this issue.
I’m going to offer you this:
TBC’s lore was literally nothing, absolute dog-sh!t. Nothing redeemable about it.
The only good bits of TBC lore was general worldbuilding and aesthetic, but the actual story of the expansion was garbage.
WotLK’s actual main story was weak as well.
Every zone consisted of:
Beat Scourge > Beat Scourge Leader > Lich King shows up ‘Grr… I’ll get you next time’ > Leaves > Repeat.
The main through-line for WotLK tackled no real narrative theme or had anything substantial to say narratively, it was just a tour through seeing Arthas from WC3.
All three of the initial ‘classic’ expansions had barely any main story, Wrath touched on having a main story a bit, so did TBC but it was nothing substantial.
Post-Wrath the actual ‘expansion storylines’ became a much more prevalent feature going forward, and the story became the main focus.
Blizzard began thinking more about what they wanted to portray out of a story rather than just flaunting old recognizables… (still flaunted old recognizables btw, just tried to focus more on the narrative)
So I really don’t get how people can go on pretending like the lore or story was any better in the older expansions when most of the main story either: A, sucks or is barely present, or B, are entirely portrayed in comic books, novels, and other material not directly in the game and can be entirely ignored.
I’m also writing this based off the assumption that you mean the actual storylines of recent WoW expansions are bad, and not the worldbuilding.
If you’re saying that the worldbuilding itself is bad, well, the worldbuilding in everything pre-Chronicles was paper thin and often inconsistent.
The main bit of worldbuilding prior to its decanonization was the RPG, which nobody ever mentions in this ‘old vs. new’ conversations, for whatever reason.
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