Okay, see you soon! 
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Welcome to FF14.
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This hurts to read just because of how true it is. I feel like I have come back with suitable retorts to people who do this to me, but the point should be that I shouldn’t have to retort at all.
I am not a pacifist, I do not believe “An eye for an eye makes the world blind” as a general truth. Violence, or the threat of it, is often enough to subdue a person and prevent them from taking an action. Violence can be used tyrannically, or it can be used to bring an end to Tyranny. The mantra of non-violence is a simplistic, even childish perspective on a nuanced concept.
However, I think such pacifist Matras carry more weight in the online space. When any threat of combative force is hallow and/or inconsequential. At worst, I might get my feelings hurt. And I always have the option to just disengage.
I think this makes people more combative and more retaliatory in the online space than they normally would be. People who are meek in demeanor are more likely to retaliate to negativity with bolder and more offensive language than they would ever dare face to face. Thus, violence, in this case verbal violence, if you want to use that term, will only beget more violence, and very rarely achieve anything.
Honestly, people who hate me here on the forums, at least some of them, would probably like me irl. I am quite popular with a large amount of friends with vastly different opinions.
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https://i.imgur.com/IIvOFX9.png
FF14 doesn’t appeal to me, actually.
I mean, trash talking should be a part of any good rivalry. But this one isn’t good, it was intentionally made toxic by people who wanted to sanctimoniously preach that war is bad but also stand up a satisfying competitive environment - failing on both counts.
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This is true, because there are so many possibilities to mock Night Elf fans now and they have nothing to say at all as a counter, because they have nothing left in the first place and also never got a victory that could be brought up.
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I don’t often agree with you Kyalin but on this I am in 100% agreement. I know there are a lot of innocent devs at Blizzard that are going to be hurt by this, but that’s on Bobby Kotick, J. Allen Brack, Alex Afrasiabi and his enablers and whatever idiot wrote that god-awful PR response yesterday.
I suppose I was naive in my assumption that Blizzard’s story decisions were made in good faith. Everything we have learned in the last day puts Blizzard’s treatment of Night Elves, of the Horde, of Sylvanas, of Jaina, Tyrande, and every other female character in a new light. Maybe you were on to something after all.
A lot of my firmly held convictions went out the window yesterday. I even lost faith in a person who I once admired at Blizzard who retired several years ago who I just cannot believe was unaware of this stuff. No matter how much the community loves him or is desperate to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Anyway, enough from me for now.
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I am a fan of Howard Stern - if you aren’t aware of him, he has had a radio show for 30+ years that is full of blue humor. He had a segment that kind of relates :
He was saying that he likes vulgarity and raucous language and blue humor most of the time - but not every where in his life.
He is a dog lover, and he was complaining that every where he goes online to just talk about dogs, people are so hostile and insulting- things I couldn’t post here. So, he goes to a heavily moderated website for dog enthusiasts. A website where they ban hostility and insulting stuff, because people just want a safe space to talk about dogs and share pictures without all sorts of trolling.
I can understand wanting a sort of safe space. I just don’t see that in Warcraft, though. It isnt exactly LOTR, where people can peacefully RP Elven and Human stuff, and discuss it with little animus. Warcraft is very upfront that it is not a craft of peace.
That is all but a given, with you.
Yes, I think you are one of the more strident posters, welding words as weapons, but what of it? Everyone has their moments. It is how you feel.
… you don’t have to retort. That is how you engage with what is there. Others react differently. I have seen a few posters who can not be cajoled into a fight.
I can be polite and cordial for a while but I have a hard time suffering people’s crud for long. More so IRL than even here. People say my opinion about people is all over my face, and it is often a withering glare - sometimes I wish I wasn’t so easy to read, or so expressive. It is near impossible for me to fake not being mildly irritated.
At this point I rue the fact I got back into this game. I probably should’ve let WoW sit in my memory, perceived with rose colored glasses, and left it at that. I’d mentioned before how I was content to let my sub run out, I bought them in six month chunks so I’m not exactly sure when that’ll be, but at time of writing I really don’t want to touch any of their products ever again.
Their handling of the story and gameplay have been abysmal, and not wanting to settle on merely being incompetent we also got to learn the company is incorrigible as well. And I do mean that. Without a Stratholme level purge here complete with some transparency on how this was allowed to happen and how they intend to make sure it never could again - I don’t feel comfortable giving them my money. The idea even a solitary red cent of mine might’ve wound up in the pocket of these degenerates is profoundly upsetting to me.
And it is a shame. I was shopping around other MMOs and what few interested me had some giant red flags attached. Apparently ESO is all phasing all the time, and I’ve never in my life understood Final Fantasy. Seriously I looked up the playable races and it’s all anime tropes complete with the thousand year old race that just happens to look like little girls, which is somehow more concerning than just letting you play a magic child soldier.
I’ll probably never find a game as fun to just wander around as WoW, and I’m certain I’ll never find anything that resonates with me as much as the Forsaken. I know because I’ve tried.
There’s still a very good game in here somewhere. But it’s legacy has been so exquisitely tarnished at this point I’m not sure if it can, or should, be repaired at this point. Seriously the idea they leveraged people’s love for this setting to pay them substandard wages was gross on its own. Knowing they did that to keep people in a wildly uncomfortable and unhealthy workplace so toxic it may have well killed at least one person is - well, I’m not a man short on words often. But I really have nothing to describe that with. Just unintelligible grunting sounds from a throat choked with rage and dry heave noises.
What an unmitigated disaster. And I’m so annoyed I arrived in time to watch it. Really wish I was going about my day right now just dimly aware that an old game I used to play is falling apart because of corporate sleaze politics. Instead of just being so upset I indirectly supported this gruesome carnival of the damned.
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If it really upsets you to the point that it interferes in your day to day, then I recommend you just get off the internet for a time. And perhaps seek counseling.
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For future reference, most people post their ‘I’m quitting’ threads in general.
Stay classy.
Oh go suck a railroad spike with your faux concern. People are right to feel a personal sense of betrayal and disgust about this. We’re talking about a lawsuit filed by the state of California after a years long investigation. This isn’t Twitter drama. It’s a company being so vile the state government had to step in to do something about fragrant and malicious labor violations. Which speaks volume given our hilariously poor labor rights.
If this does not put anger in your marrow then you’re the one in need of psychiatric care.
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Give New World a try. Yes, a tiny handful of people with high-end graphics cards had graphics card issues because of uncapped frame rates, but I’ve got the GTX 3090, capped my FPS at 60, and have had no problems in the beta. The combat system is fun — you get interesting ability trees and you actually have to aim, you can’t just target and go; there are swords, spears, muskets, magic; the world isn’t as beautifully rendered as Destiny 2 but moreso than WoW; you can dye your gear different colors; and while the character customizations are a little minimal and you can only play as human, I’m about 98% sure there’s good roleplay potential there. They also don’t tie gender to character customizations, and they have…not a vast array, but what seems to me to be an acceptable variety skin tones, hairstyles, and face models.
AND PLAYER HOUSING.
I have no issue with those feeling anger or disgust, those are natural emotions in a thing of this nature.
Its when it crosses over into interfering in your daily life that its time to take a step back and perhaps reassess.
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Do you often approach shirtless vagabonds standing on soapboxes, and give them life advice?
That sounds like a neat reality show - I wouldn’t watch it, but someone might.
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This being America I’ve had to go to work the same day as a funeral. Trust me I think I can manage being mad about a company.
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My stances on moderation have changed somewhat in the last two years - but not that much. Moderation isn’t the matter that this thread was created to talk about, and usually my attitude is that something has to significantly cross the line for me to think about getting a moderator’s attention. I also as I think I stated, don’t mind an intense rivalry, or the trash talk that goes with it.
“We have not asked that the rules of the game should be modified. If any, we shall never descend to [their] level. But if anybody likes to play rough, we can play rough too.”
- Winston Churchill
So I do feel the need to correct you here. I am not asking for a safe space and I abhor the notion, but this thread’s original intent - before a few days ago, its sole intent - was to draw a line under the ways in which the game as written influences online behavior, and citing cases such as the lopsided nature of the storytelling against the Night Elves, how it undermines my enjoyment in a video game whose rivalry I would otherwise very much like to participate in.
Which of course was a thought that occupied my mind before I recognized that I wasn’t drawing attention to something that someone may not have noticed, but rather, something that Blizzard’s leadership actively didn’t care about because being exclusionary, mean, and hostile to whole groups of people that are unlike them extends way past fans of a video game race. I nevertheless wanted to say my peace on the matter, and talk about this point for the benefit of this community.
I’m unlikely to. WoW sort of formed my opinion on traditional MMOs, and I can’t really see myself playing another one. I have instead found my fun in World of Warships - because I’m a history nerd and a PVPer at heart. As I said, I don’t mind competitive gameplay - but as I’ve also said on that topic, that game doesn’t actively tell me that the nation whose ships I’ve picked is actively trash because their developers prefer the other side of a rivalry, or because they have an active disdain for the characteristics of my choice. That translates into a much more fun experience for me. My sense of worth and enjoyment in that competitive environment is dictated by my ability alone, and not an actively hostile set of lore that I would get mocked for in the chat.
Finally…
When you wrestle a pig in mud, the pig likes it. There’s a reason I haven’t replied to some people - that is that they’re not worth replying to.
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I have felt this way for years. I have nearly settled with the idea that MMORPGs are an antiquated notion, and have become more of a niche, than a full throated aspect of Gaming.
Elder Scrolls has a pretty interesting and deep story and world - but I hear the Gameplay is abysmal in comparison to WoW, especially at End Game. I might get into that Franchise when I become a geriatric, and just want to move around in pretty places and read a story.
FF 14 is just not my cup of tea in almost every way. It checks a lot of boxes for others, and that is Ok… but it is not for me at all. I don’t want to bash it, because I know it is a matter of taste.
The old Star Wars one - Kotor, or something… “Not Galaxies”? I love Star Wars, but that game seems too rigid and again, doesn’t come close to WoW in End Game. Now, Galaxies was closer to what an MMORPG should be - Players could construct their own housing and have dancing as a profession- but the price was inflating, and it couldn’t keep up.
There is a LOTR MMO, but that is strictly style, and the Tolkien Estate rules it out as Non-Canon fun - so it seems very frivolous. And again, WoW beats it in Gameplay.
It basically boils down to:
WoW had the better Gameplay in most cases. And an evolving story we participate in, even if we don’t always effect it. FF 14 might match WoW, but the story and style are not my cup of tea.
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Well, all I can say is that I’m right there myself.
Since resubbing at Shadowland’s launch I’ve struggled to find compelling reasons for me to log on. My general leveling and playthrough feels forced, and while there were aspects of Shadowlands that I’ve enjoyed, as a whole, I’m just not that engaged. I’m letting my sub run out as well.
As other’s have responded, it’s sad. Warcraft is a world that I’ve often enjoyed milling around in. Casually leveling professions. Being sociable with guildies and server communities. Experiencing the various stories throughout the world on different characters to gain different perspectives on what was currently unfolding. To uncover more about the lore, and speculate on those tantalizing mysteries they’d left for us along the way. It was the story that brought that world to life for me and the players who helped make it vibrant.
Now the story is all kinds of twisted up, and this lawsuit only personally confirms for me certain notions I’ve had as to why. They just don’t care, and it shows. It all bleeds through to the surface. Try as I have, it’s characters and their stories no longer hold any real interest for me.
Maybe… it’s time for Warcraft to pass on.
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Yeah in the 7 or so years I didn’t play WoW I dabbled in other MMOs. Old Republic and DC Universe I spent the most time on. OR imho has a really fascinating class system and some of the best instanced PvP ever made. DC Universe is the only time I’ve seen twitch gameplsy pulled off well in a MMO, and the WPvP was amazing. I still remember my ranged/ gadget/bioweapon villain (Ausbruch, outbreak Auf Deutsch) getting into a fight with a magical, St.Michael styled hero. And it was insane. Zipping through buildings, losing him in parking garages to set up surface to air missiles. It captured ridiculous comic combat so well.
But both fell flat because they lacked worlds that were interesting to explore and felt real. There’s so much environmental story telling in WoW that inspires curiosity about your surroundings. You want to dive into this fascinating world and discern its mysteries.
And with OR and DCU my reaction was “Yep, that’s Tatooine alright” or “That certainly is a city”. Once you’ve seen the worlds at face value that was it. There was no more to explore.
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