"You think you do but you don't" and we'll make sure of it

I can’t understand how people can fail to realize that an individual working for a company may not have the company’s best interests at heart.

I’m refering to people who prefer the massive number imbalance on some servers.

Aside from that, I think you are wrong. Except about war not being fair.

Sure, sure. Everyone who disagrees with you isn’t thinking for themselves.

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With the state of queues at Classic launch, I just assume that most people leveled their first toons where there wasn’t a queue. It’s obvious that it was never rebalanced nor was it every attempted to be rebalanced and I think the logical conclusion to draw is that it cannot be rebalanced because across PVP servers the overall skew is too large or the logistics of addressing that skew would open up an entirely different can of worms.

This is the conclusion I draw logically. Since this is ATVI, I would assume that they cut a chicken’s head off on a flat wheel of fortune and where the body falls over determines the action they take.

It’s true generally, that doesn’t mean it’s true exhaustively. Kind of like “boomer”.

You understand that all you have done is answer my question with the same accusative rhetoric I have called you out on? It’s all substanceless complaint and outrage, clouds without rain. You want to pull everything down without any idea of what to replace it with - except some vague notion of socialist utopia I think?

If you want to make a difference, no-one is stopping you. Do something positive. If all you’ve got is general outrage at others and excuses for why you can’t actually do anything, then my question remains unanswered.

Years ago in Australia workers at a company went on strike for more pay or something. Unions in Australia historically have wielded enormous power (and been deeply corrupt to boot, but that’s another issue), and in this case they enforced that power mindlessly. The management of the company warned the workers and union that if they didn’t come to some sort of agreement and get back to work, the company would go bankrupt and be forced to close. The union refused to back down. Proposal after proposal was rejected. As warned, the company eventually closed. The building it operated in was emptied, and the owners left.

You know what the workers and union did? They staged a sit-in in the building, demanding their jobs back. They said they were not going to leave until the company they had just bankrupted gave them their jobs back. I kid you not.

That is what you guys look and sound like.

No, no. Feel free to disagree. I have zero problem with that. It was when you started sounding like CNN that I started rolling my eyes.

Players with PvP server issues don’t speak for the rest of the people on the PvE servers that are happy.
There were always server imbalances, even back in 2004-06. A few years ago a friend at work re-rolled on a PvE server where I played because he was so tired of the PvP server he was on for many years.
I understand the imbalance problem is compounded by the large increase in the server population capability of modern times. Would it be better if it was 10v2 versus 20v2?
I have to say that knowing the way this game is and the way it was at launch, you had to expect this to some degree on a PvP realm. If you don’t want to be hampered or annoyed by PvP while you PvE, then roll on a PvE server and set your flag.

Phase 2 sucks. Only gankers would think otherwise.

Not only does it suck but it is horribly unfair. And not because of faction-imbalance, but because certain classes(such as rogues) have a huge advantage because of the nature of WPvP and the honor system.

Phase 2 never should have happened. And it doesn’t just suck on high population servers, it sucks on low population servers too. The only servers it doesn’t suck on is PvE servers.

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Not a ganker, but I play on Mankrik, and Phase 2 is glorious. TM vs SS has been going on pretty much constantly since Honor released, for those who want world PvP. And the tears of those who said that PvE servers are ‘carebear’ servers that are ‘pretending’ to play the ‘real’ game are like fine cheese to go with that whine.

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Phase 2 would have been glorious if the realms had vanilla level populations. Even the faction imbalances could have been worked around. But as it stands right now with these crazy high populations the game is basically unplayable. GG Blizzard. I am sure this will get everyone to play BfA and pre-purchase Shadowlands.

Part of a conversation I had with a friend before I started playing Classic.

August 13, 2019 5:55 PM redshadowz: Well, I think all the hardcore players want to go PvP servers… But almost everyone who has signed up for that list played on private servers… A lot of people will come from BFA who have never played on a private server
August 13, 2019 5:57 PM redshadowz: In all honesty I would gladly play on a PvE server
August 13, 2019 5:59 PM redshadowz: There is an advantage to playing a PvP server on private servers, because you can get ranks while leveling up in world PvP… But since the honor system wont even be in the game while I’m leveling, world PvP will be have no “Reward” at all, only do it for the fun… But I can’t really say that it is very fun, at least except in those minor exceptions.
August 13, 2019 6:01 PM redshadowz: Also, there was an advantage in actual retail vanilla to playing on a PvP server because there were no cross-server battlegrounds, and only PvP servers had constant BG’s going
August 13, 2019 6:03 PM redshadowz: but with Cross-realm BG’s, I really don’t see any advantages to a PvP server… even doing raids will suck, especially if someone in your guild is a streamer(which is almost always the case anymore), because you’ll be a target, and they’ll try to grief you
August 13, 2019 6:03 PM redshadowz: plus all streamers will go to PvP servers, because they have to entertain an audience
August 13, 2019 6:03 PM redshadowz: audiences like to see the griefing
August 13, 2019 6:08 PM redshadowz: Think I’m going to roll on Pagle
August 27, 2019 11:38 PM redshadowz: But with cross-realm bg’s, who gives a crap? World PvP is crap, and phase 2 basically forces everyone to just gank levelers anyway(IE maximize their honor per hour).
August 27, 2019 11:40 PM redshadowz: I’ve never been a fan of PvP servers because I hate world PvP… it does add a little bit of depth to the game, can fight the opposite faction for quest items, or just makes it more interesting(although largely frustrating).
August 27, 2019 11:41 PM redshadowz: I never gank anyone, only time I PvP is when people in my group are pvp’ing or when someone attacks me

A couple weeks after…

September 11, 2019 8:57 AM redshadowz: Paradoxically the PvP on PvE servers is actually better than the PvP on PvP servers
September 11, 2019 8:59 AM redshadowz: well, the battleground queues will be the same regardless of what server you play on, because BG’s are crossrealm
September 11, 2019 9:00 AM redshadowz: Well faction-imbalance is going to be a problem, certainly… but this was an issue I raised long before I knew the faction ratios, or even got into a zone where there was PvP
September 11, 2019 9:01 AM redshadowz: Horde will completely dominate blackrock mountain and dire maul
September 11, 2019 9:10 AM redshadowz: Well, I do insist that the vast-majority of players don’t like to PvP at all, and never PvP… But I think PvP’ers are more adamant than PvE’ers, plus PvE servers are considered kind of carebear, and their accomplishes are discarded for being ez-mode
September 11, 2019 9:10 AM redshadowz: If you want to be famous, you have to play on a PvP server
September 11, 2019 9:11 AM redshadowz: Well, from my experience, most players just don’t like to PvP, at all, ever.
September 11, 2019 9:12 AM redshadowz: I don’t hate PvP servers, they aren’t all bad… And there are some people who just love PvP, and have the “if it’s red, it’s dead” mentality.
September 11, 2019 9:13 AM redshadowz: What I’m saying is, most people prefer playing on PvP servers, but the margin isn’t massive in the first place… But even then, a lot of the people who say they prefer PvP servers, never PvP… So why do they prefer PvP servers?
September 11, 2019 9:15 AM redshadowz: the problem I have with PvP servers, isn’t that I hate PvP, or that I don’t think they don’t add something to the game.
September 11, 2019 9:16 AM redshadowz: The problem I have with PvP servers, is that I feel kind of caught in a kind of moral-dilemma… I don’t like to gank people, I hate it in fact. And I don’t like feeling like I have to gank people… I also don’t like getting ganked in what are obviously unfair fights, which is like 99% of the time.
September 11, 2019 9:23 AM redshadowz: The only thing I said was, I think the PvP in phase 2 will actually be more fun on PvE servers, since it will primarily be raiding towns, and other organized world PvP… rather than the lowbie ganking, and camping blackrock mountain and dire maul with massive faction-imbalances.

Basically, if it was only me playing the game I would have rolled on a PvE server and I would be mocking the PvP server people right along with you. I tried to get my friends/guildies to roll on a PvE server but I was outvoted. I was stuck with a choice between playing with them or playing by myself. I chose to play with them.

Most of that conversation happened either before we chose a server, or after we started playing on Skeram(which ended up being one of the absolute worst servers).

Phase 2 was never going to be glorious. And it isn’t more glorious on medium-population servers than it is on full servers. But on PvE servers you get some good without all the bad. I am actually quite jealous of the PvE servers, and a little bitter that I wasn’t able to talk my friends/guild into playing on one.

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People are overstating the faction imbalances. Whether or not there are 2k or 10k people on your server the same 15 no lifers would still have been there to kill you.

You aren’t getting ganked by 500 people at once, there aren’t even that many people in a single zone.

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Oh man since Legion?

2 years later and you’re an arm chair dev. Grats but you’re missing a few things.

This would be your inexperience showing. Blizz shut down many many pservers with C&D orders. The one that caused them to stop ignoring the legacy movement was Nost. Which was the biggest one up to that point. 12k+ on a single server.
When it got shot down is when the community lost it’s mind, started the petition, and blew up every single social media outlet. Proving there was demand for legacy servers.

You don’t have to buy the next expansion that is your choice. Changes to the game though? Yea you agreed to those when you hit accept.
If that’s arrogance. What do you call accepting an agreement then welching on that agreement?

Yet you’re not ignoring it? Yea. Alot of people hated changes but a lot of people also liked them. As with your use of the word arrogant. i don’t think you understand what subjective means.

Dude. They didnt expect much more than 100k when wow first launched. 100k to a sub game was industrt standard. Until wow completely blew that out of the water with almost 10 million. To this day its still the unicorn that devs chase.
The pop did continue to increase. Until the end of wrath. Then spiked. Then dropped off. Spiked. Dropped. Dropped. Spiked. Classic spiked…yea. its become a cycle.
No king rules forever my son.

Dude. They suffered piracy in Vanilla. This didn’t just start in legion.
This is blizz making sure their old software doesn’t become abandonware and a sub grab. Yea. They get it.

Maybe because you’re an armchair dev that has never ran an mmo? You’re new to the logistics of playing mmo’s. Let alone telling a billion dollar company that’s been in this business longer than you’ve played mmos how to run an mmo. Just :rofl:

Hopefully they would be doing fresh servers every so often because 15 years of farming Naxx doesn’t sound engaging to me. Only way mmo’s live is with fresh releases of the same content for the “race” or new content is added.
This is true of every mmo. Ever. What kept pservers going was the fresh releases and the huge social media advertising after Nost was taken down.

See above. Only works if there’s fresh servers or new content. Players get bored.

I’m not even getting into all the issues this would raise. This is a bad idea.

In closing. You’re on your way to being a great armchair dev. Toodles.

Come over to one, make new friends and stuff.
I play on both

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Wow any excuse to justify the servers are dying because it is not as popular as all you die hard hoped.

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It would seem you are a dev incognito. And I struck a chord.

  1. I get it. I have no voice being new. I’ve learned that in these forums.

  2. Pservers persisted and reformed with each Cease and Desist. I was only trying to reinforce this reality.

  3. It’s arrogance when you sell a sequel to the previous as superior each time.

  4. Your point of view vs. mine. Apparently, you think I am not allowed to share mine.

  5. I wanted to clarify that developers have drifted away from player driven content to investor driven content. The silence on this forum as proof.

  6. But why did it take them so long to see it as abandonware?

  7. Not an dev, but there were articles out there that stated Blizzard did not want two to run two MMOs. I get that they are expensive, risk failing like Titan, but Classic as a standalone to retail was bound to be successful. You deny this?

  8. Only time will tell if Blizzard opens up fresh servers. Still, time invested in a toon can be hard for some to let go. LH offered people the means to transfer their toons to another server.

  9. Even fresh servers, see #8, could drive away or fracture guilds because it’s a choice. Not saying, it shouldn’t be a choice. But, ultimately far more would have kept their subs.

  10. Proof you are the dev because you fear IP and DRM abuse. “Dude or boomer”, it’s your product. I get that. Yet, too often companies become too large, too greedy, too entrenched in merchandising untested content and forget their roots in more humble backgrounds.

Is this a fair assessment for you?

I have RL friends and family along with a guild I’ve been raiding with for 4 years. Plus I have three 60’s now. It might have been possible the first couple weeks.

After BG’s launch it won’t really matter.

Here’s the thing bud, we absolutely don’t care about any of this. Classic is the game we wanted, and we’re loving it. I personally have zero negativity towards it (apart from the RNG which feels wonky to me TBH). If you’re honestly complaining about the state of what is a reproduction of a 15 year old game, you’re in the wrong game, and playing it for the wrong reasons.

I absolutely love reading the cringe like this. Yea ok, you’re here angrily posting on the forums because youre happy and dont care about what we say… lmao