"You don't NEED to min/max to play the game!"

The covenant system (in its current form) doesn’t stop you from playing the flavor of the month either. It stops you from playing the flavor of the minute.

That is definitely an issue that should be fixed before release. All specs should feel good about what all 4 covenants have to offer them.

I don’t want you to have to change either. I think you should be able to go anywhere and do anything as a venthyr hunter that any other hunter can do.

But I mean that as in succeed in any content, not necessarily have the exact same abilities as a necrolord hunter. That would be boring, and it’s more important for a game not to be boring than for it to be perfectly balanced.

A venthyr marksman and a necrolord marksman are going to be much less different than a venthyr marksman and a venthyr beastmaster, but Blizzard has been making different specs able to do generally the same thing for years.

Not exactly as a talent but they could tie it to the classes as its own system that sits separate from talents.

Just instead of getting an ability from a covenant, the game has you pick your signature abilities from one of the four options. They can still put some kind of cost on switching your signature abilities around like they did Azerite traits if they really want to.

I’d like to see conduits do the same thing. Call it mastery or whatever and put the trees as spec specific things that give us cool and unique buffs for our actual spec themes rather than a covenant that has nothing to do with our class.

Then covenants can offer story, cosmetics, and maybe some other item rewards in the way of gear, consumables, etc.

This would also allow for a bit of sideways progression in the future, since this wouldn’t need to be a system that’s abandoned in future expansions. They could add new signature abilities and new mastery sockets but since we’re limited in how many we can take it wouldn’t bloat our classes.

It’s a case of people who don’t play raid content trying to tell raiders what’s neccesary for them.

It’s annoying, it’s fine if you don’t play at that level - put people who DO play at that level or people that WANT to play at that level have to deal with these problems. This isn’t just a 1% issue.

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I really don’t get collecting every bad looking mount in the game on top of the ones I know I will likely use far more. There are tons of reskins and trashy looking mounts so I don’t even bother trying to get them. I also don’t care at all about transmog in the game enough to go farming for them in some random dungeon usually. If I see something I like I’ll throw it on and not even really remember it’s name or where I got it.

I think the issue in the game comes out of a bunch of random people shaming you for your lack of mounts, pets, transmog, etc. I’ve had people tell me they can’t trust someone who doesn’t even transmog in some childish smug tone. People are douche’s in this game at times and seem to expect others to have the same goals and ambitions as them and if not you are shut out of their little circles I guess. I usually ignore these types though and just play the game.

It’s usually the cool kids pressuring others to play the way they want you to. We’re also surrounded by wannabe esports players who take things very very seriously and shun everyone not like them. It’s stupid and annoying if anything. I’m not some esports gamer and don’t care at all to be one.

Cosmetics would just be fluff. And it would depend on what you mean by exclusive content and flavorful abilities.

I’m honestly fine with having some power attached to covenants. Gives our choice that much more impact.

I wouldn’t worry about what min/maxers do except they are always trying to ruin everything fun about the game because they can’t handle someone else doing 2% more damage than them.

i agree their intent is not to swap back and forth. i think they should have doubled down on that instead of letting up. and making it less so later on in the expansion.

THIS.

SO MUCH this.

This hits the nail on the head, cleanly.

What are you guys who like Kyrian or Venthyr no matter how bad they are numerically losing out on if I don’t have to commit to Kyrian or Venthyr from start to finish without breaking my back to change my Covenant?

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Death and Decay isn’t used for its damage. Death and Decay is used to enable abilities that actually do damage.

And why would you go Necrolord and get a bad Death and Decay on a long cooldown when you could go Night Fae and get a Death and Decay that simultaneously gives you a 15% Strength buff and a 15% damage reduction buff?

Death’s Due is just strictly better in all PvE situations. Raid trash isn’t, and hasn’t been for years, an issue.

Fun is subjective friend

Someone who prioritizes how good the underlying numbers are or usefulness of their abilities over how much fun they are.

For example, Dwarf Priest in Classic has fear ward. A min/maxer raid leader would require their priests to be playing dwarf. A player who wasn’t min/maxing would be perfectly happy with human, or gasp night elf priests joining their group. I use this as an example because I see stuff like this all the time in Classic, but that’s just one example.

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Everyone plays games to have fun. I understand some people find it fun to put up the best numbers and maximize their efficiency.

However, their is a difference between someone who is playing for fun and someone who is checking spreadsheets and DPS meters every 2 minutes. That is not a fun activity, do not tell me that is fun. It is not.

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Some people find theory crafting games fun, yes, just like some people just enjoy doing math.

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No, sorry. If you find spreadsheets fun, then you are not a normal person. You are strange weirdo and you deserve to be mocked.

https://i.imgur.com/S1lGhWg.png

That is a link to my WoW character’s face? I don’t even understand what you’re going for here. Not very fun.

Yes it is but the point was that min/maxers drive a lot of changes in this game so it is perfectly reasonable for people to worry about what they do.

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Some people find torturing animals fun. That doesn’t mean they should be celebrated, and other people have the right to judge them for it.

when you have to use torturing animals as a hypothetical comparison to whether or not someone can find min/maxing fun, you know you’re hurting to find a reasonable argument lol

Why? I’m pointing out that ‘fun is subjective’ is a dumb statement, and not a good way to oppose an argument.