I want to increase the dps capability of non-healer paladins without increasing their healing capability. I think some hybrid flexibility is an important part of Vanilla’s class design but I wouldn’t want to overdo it. I know there is a distinction between melee crit and spell crit, but even then I think illumination is a significant part of what makes Holy Pally sustain so critical and a gear swap would be all that’s required for a Ret Paladin to become a very effective healer? Obviously there’s more to it but that’s why I would be initially hesitant to just lowering illumination in the tier instead of rolling those desirable effects into deep prot or deep ret talents.
I suppose I should also be up front in that I’d be looking for those to be effectively freebies for the standard builds for both tank and dps paladins. They’re things that those specs should have access to now and just don’t. Of course, it’s also worth noting that if you don’t have mana issues then you don’t really need the additional intel from 5 points in the Holy tree and you can now more effectively choose between PvE sustain and spell pushback as a Ret Paladin. I find having to make choices between PvE and PvP effectiveness in Vanilla interesting, personally.
While I do lament the viper sting spam hunters do, I think I think the true cost, is what you give up to do it. The cost of it in terms of mana shouldn’t outweigh what it takes away but hunters are losing that GCD. A hunter spamming viper sting in PvE is certainly annoying but that hunter is also not doing a lot of damage
With that said, I wonder what the impact of even a 6s CD on it would be. That would alleviate it a bit in PvP and pretty much be a non-issue in PvE since I don’t think hunters spam it there, just put it on a target and forget about it?
Increase haste by means of Vengeance, this will increase the damage without adding “more zug burst” and keeps this talent effectively out of reach of Reck.
I’ll die on this hill: At a minimum, there should be a TBC era server; however, I would love a Vanilla->TBC->Wrath progression server that cycles indefinitely.
On the topic of TBC - this was easily my favorite expansion, both original and classic relaunch. Blizzard nailed the zones and expertly paired the music with them. To this day, there is no better original soundtrack. Thematically, TBC hits like nothing else has… it’s almost like a waking dream with the way the mist hangs in the trees in Terorkkar forest with the olemba seeds casting light rays through the thicket. The alien, otherworldly skybox in Hellfire Penninsula and Netherstorm to the floating islands of Nagrand. It’s such an exotic world and a refreshing change of scenery that I’ll always appreciate.
Tons of content with three raids immediately out the gate, which is now unheard of. Personally, I enjoyed the attunement grind but after doing it twice, I’d be happy with account wide attunements or some sort of quickened process with each character thereafter. I’d also be happy with raid wide buffs so we’re not stacking 5 shamans.
The point of contention is where to put the mana restoration. I was advocating for vengeance to be…
1/2/3/4/5 points = Restores 1%/2%/3%/4%/5% of base mana and <insert existing effect here> after dealing a critical strike…
I think adding some haste is really cool! Especially for a role that typically uses very slow 2h weapons, but it doesn’t address the fact that having those mana offerred by an Illumination moved to an earlier tier in Holy might give pallies too much hybrid power.
By the way, for Sanctity Aura, I’ve been considering…
Increases all spell damage by 5% and Holy damage by an additional 5% for all party members within 30 yards.
Long as you don’t have the spell push back protection accessible to either Prot or Ret is fine. IMO imp concentration aura should go back to Holy, and Spell pushback protection should be 15+ points deep in holy also.
Having illumination near the top where divine int is… would be great, and really Divine int should be deeper any way.
I would also make Consecrate a 10 or 20 points deep prot talent so that its more accessible for Tank paladins, and put some sort of interaction between cons and holy shield??
At this point I think we just have different visions for how this is achieved, and I think that’s ok. I recognize your viewpoint and I think we understand each other
Honestly, I don’t think that’s necessary. Don’t get me wrong, it would certainly be helpful, but I’m pretty firm in not wanting to add too much to the existing Vanilla game. For a prot pally right now, all I’ve ever felt I needed was a reliable taunt and some form of mana sustain. Everything else actually feels pretty good.
They may not be as effective as a Warrior but I’m ok with that. I’m not looking for perfect balance in my personal version of Classic+. If Warriors stayed the best class in the game I would be fine with that, I just want to close the gap a teensy bit to make it not a liability to bring them.
We have a Prot pally in our raid team and he does pretty well but I’m pretty much his dedicated innervate bot so he can maintain threat and if he loses that, he’s not getting it back without a taunt.
Yeah that really should be the way to focus a game, you don’t want things to be insane clown land like SoD, you want it to be Vanilla with even more options.
Reminder that if we ever get classic/BC/Wrath+ it will be riddled with nonsense like alpha/beta/gamma dungeons, and we’d be lucky if they can help themselves and not shove scaling in there too.
They just need to release TBC and WotLK servers, and then allow for transfers. Blizz, keep it simple. It would take minimal work to accomplish and you would make many players happy while bringing in a profit on the venture.
