I won’t lie… every time I get a little too immersed in my character I start thinking:
“You know what? If Xal’atath somehow turns out to actually be fighting for Azeroth instead of just trying to claim her… I might join her.”
Not because I trust Xal—absolutely not. But after 20 years of Titans, Void, Legion, Old Gods, Death, Light, and every other cosmic Homeowners Association showing up to “save” or “claim” our sleeping World Soul…
At some point my character just snaps and goes: “Everybody OUT. Nobody touches Mom Azeroth anymore!!!”
Then I log off, remember it’s just Warcraft, touch grass… and quietly sip my coffee while wondering why I’m emotionally invested in defending a fictional planet from the universe’s biggest bullies.
Honestly… I think TLT might end up being my “Final Shape” moment with WoW.
Not because I hate the game. If anything, I want Blizzard to prove me wrong.
It’s just…SIGH— lately I’ve been seeing all these fan projects and crazy ideas people come up with. Not because I want Blizzard to copy them, but because they remind me how passionate people still are about Warcraft.
Then my brain starts wandering into dangerous territory… “Man… imagine if Blizzard licensed Warcraft to a studio like Larian to make self-contained single-player stories. Let us make meaningful choices, explore corners of Azeroth the MMO never has, build actual relationships with characters… heck, even let a modding community go absolutely feral with it.”
I know… wishful thinking. But it’s hard not to think about all the stories Warcraft could still tell.
Maybe TLT gives me that spark again. Maybe it gives me closure instead. Either one is honestly fine.
If it sticks the landing, awesome. If it doesn’t… I think it’ll just feel like a good place to finally set the sword down for a while.
Now excuse me while I go overdose on copium that Blizzard randomly announces a class that completely ruins this plan.
I’m enough self-aware to know my weakness when it comes to games like WoW! Hahah
Nothing’s going to change with Warcraft until there’s a catastrophic drop in players, or real competition. The gamers that play for gameplay - doing the M+ loop and raiding, are happy enough, and those that actually enjoy that loop are typically people that hit escape every time a cutscene shows up and typically aren’t very in-the-know when it comes to story or lore.
I know he’s not as big as some content creators, but even Nixxiom came out with a video the other day, claiming the story/plot is just as bad, if not worse, than it was in Shadowlands. And I couldn’t find much in myself that disagreed with that. The story is… Very, very bad. Intelligence-insultingly bad; I struggle to even posit another story-based game on the market now with a story that is as bad as Warcraft’s at the moment. It’s legitimately at the point where Warcraft’s writing makes a game like The First Descendant look like absolute cinema. That’s a problem.
Unfortunately, this game is absolutely propped up by people that are more than happy to just mindlessly consume M+, like they have for years at this point, and each new expansion is just new window dressing for that same gameplay loop. And without any real competition, Blizzard is more than happy to keep pumping out these mindless friend-slop plot-beats, because where exactly is anyone going to go? If Dawntrail was anything like Shadowbringers, maybe Blizzard would need to worry; but they don’t have any real competition at the moment. So you’ll take your milquetoast friend-slop and enjoy it, because you don’t have any real alternative.
Um, about M+… check out the latest news… of what a GM did… I’m getting those post-Shadowlands PTSD flashbacks again… —with so much happing right now… that is not looking good! Mythic new Drama of the day
I guess I don’t understand what the distinction is between Xal consuming or becoming Azeroth. Both seem like doomsday scenarios that spell the end for us regardless, so it doesn’t really drive home any extra sense of urgency or despair. Maybe there’s something to being a world soul that would empower Xal in a way that just eating the soul and stealing it’s power wouldn’t replicate. I dunno, hopefully more explanations forthcoming?
It’s about the outcome everyone expected, but it also doesn’t leave a lot of room for other outcomes than Xal’s eventual defeat. Which given that there’s one more expansion coming it kind of makes me wonder if Blizzard might actually pull a twist out of their hat. Don’t get me wrong, this late in wow’s life I’ve come to expect the… expected. None of their villains have ever been particularly clever, and none of their big reveals have ever been particularly surprising.
But if this is really it, and we defeat Xal in the .2 patch, then where does that leave us narratively for the Last Titan? Are we really just dealing with the fallout of everything that’s happened when Iridikron springs his trap on the titans who return to clean up our messes? Was this multi-expansion investment in Xal really just a set up for Iridikron to get lucky that someone else lured the titans in for him?
…Roflmao. This IP. Literal ZERO GMs to help when you have actual in-game issues; you’ll be talking to an AI chatbot for 3 months over something simple.
Meanwhile, this new GM that’s friends with the bros just out here one-shotting trash mobs so the run gets timed; and apparently he death-touched Yarabyte’s boss, too, so she wouldn’t fail her key.
Official servers out here with less moderation than private servers. Apparently it helps when you’re Discord friends with GMs, I guess, lmao. What an absolute embarrassment. Granted, anything and everything Blizzard does to this point is an outright embarrassment; so par for the course I guess.
Are they, though? Both actually sound rather open-ended to me.
Do we know what happens if the character of the world-soul changes? Or if it’s gone? Or what Xal’s plan after her ascension actually is? I mean, becoming Azeroth’s world-soul could even imply an interest in protecting it in the future. And while she may not have anything but spite for Azeroth’s population, that does sound like a common goal that we’d still be useful for.
So I don’t see why our gaps in knowledge wouldn’t leave enough room to have Xal survive the addon, and leave us dealing with the consequences and likely trying to undo them the next one.
My best guess for what the ‘difference’ is: Xal can’t actually handle that kind of power as she is. She didn’t consume Dimensius for example, she needed the dark heart to handle that. She never actually directly gained his power. By supplanting Azeroth and becoming the world soul she might gain a level of direct power that should could never handle consuming.
It is also important to keep in mind that we, as players, had a pretty solid guess about her goal. But the characters had less and, most importantly, they didn’t know where she went. I don’t think this is intended to increase the urgency. No matter where Xal turned up everyone was going to immediately go after her. This is just the ‘this is where she is’ kind of reveal.
They might be more believably open ended outcomes if Xal weren’t a blatant villain, but she is. It’s -really- hard to imagine her doing any of this for anything not malevolent. Best case scenario she succeeds but is trapped in the eggshell a little longer because Azeroth wasn’t ready to wake up yet, but a voided world soul can not possibly be good for us.
I hope the characters in-universe do some speculation about what this means and what Xal might do as Azeroth. I feel like that’s the main thing this story is missing that makes it feel disjointed - NPCs worry about “Oh no, Xal is plotting ~something~” but never expound on what “something” might be beyond a single sentence, then just stand around staring into space until Xal does her next thing and they are all shocked and appalled about it.
For example - Umbric has one line about “Hmm, looks like Xal was travelling along the ley lines deep underground…” and then does nothing about it. Why not use that motivation to set up the next patch - have the shrine to Ula’tek be on another ley line convergence or something, so that we can use it to scry on what Xal is doing, and that’s a major reason why the non-trolls are travelling there - it doesn’t have to be a huge extra story chapter or anything, just something that gets brought up in text frequently enough to stick in the player’s memory.
Xal taking over the World Soul only has weight if we know what that will do to the world and all the people on it. So I’d want to see that explored, see the characters bring up specific thoughts and fears.
I didn’t question her malevolence, though, just her intent to immediately kill us all. If she doesn’t, there is enough time to set up a role for her in the Last Titan as well.
At some point they did start throwing out red herrings left and right, though, making the playerbase speculate about how the motives could actually be much deeper and make sense, only to be disappointed in the end. Villains like Ragnaros, the Lich King or Gul’dan just came out and told us what they wanted and didn’t pretend there was anything deeper going on. But at least since BfA they somehow got the idea that they could try to stir up mystery around the villains’ motives. There was so much speculation about the supposed master plans and deeper motives of Sylvanas, N’zoth, Azshara, the Jailer, Iridikion, and of course, Xal, and Blizzard invited and promoted that, and deliberately rationed the information we were getting. It’s just that they left these mystery boxes empty every time. And that’s why the old villains might not have been more complex, but certainly less frustrating.
Let’s be really honest here, most of that was player doing. Players will often read motives into characters. Let’s take a look at the ones you listed.
Sylvannas.
Blizzard wasn’t really all that secretive with her motives for long. Sure, during BfA there was some question. But Shadowlands was pretty explicit. We have cinematics with her directly stating them. Not telling us everything in BfA is not really hiding the motives, IMO.
N’zoth
Same thing he has always wanted. Power, control, a return of the Black Empire, and a corruption of the World Soul. This is not news to anyone, and Blizzard was very open with it. The only question was how he was going to try and make that happen.
Azshara
Mostly pride and desire for more power. After being bound to N’zoth she seemed to want freedom as well. But it has always been because of her pride and desire for power. Blizzard was pretty direct with that. She is just ambition and pride on overdrive.
The Jailor
This one I will give you. Blizzard did try to make his motives more complex. But, I don’t think that was the actual frustration point. The issue with him was the 10-D chess, anticipated everything, shtick they tried to sell around him. His motives were never his issue.
Iridikron
He is another one that motives are VERY plain. He is extremely angry with the Titans and wants to kill them an purge all of their influence from the world. Blizzard has been anything but subtle about that. We don’t know what his plans to make it happen are, but we know what his motives are.
So, that is one out of five that Blizzard has not been pretty blatant about motives.
So, moving on to Xal.
Even with her, I would argue we know her motives pretty well. They are power, freedom, and the ability to be untouchable. I think Blizzard tried to give us some background to explain them. There are hints of it being about fear and trauma in her past. So, I get some people thinking maybe there is some hidden motive. But Blizzard has not suggested that. That is a player thing.
Also, I think a lot of the ‘Xal has a secret goal’ speculation is based on what some players want. Based on what we have gotten she is a super dangerous villain that will have to be put down. I think some players want her to stay around. So, if she has some hidden ‘doing it for a good reason’ that might be possible. I don’t think Blizzard has even hinted that her motive is anything other than acquiring so much power she can do whatever she wants and never has to serve anyone. She is manipulative and conniving, but we have always known her goals even if we don’t know the how of her plan.
In short, the vast majority of ‘what is their hidden motive’ speculation is just from players. It is not really something Blizzard has been doing. So, of course the mystery box will be empty.
There is an argument that Blizzard should write more villains with complex motives. And that might be part of the reason people are looking for hidden motives. But, for the most part, I don’t think Blizzard has been trying to pretend their villains have them.
you only tackled one half of the argument here, though. To be honest, at this point I have no idea anymore what information and what retcon came when, and can only give you my general impression that there was quite often, if not always, a good reason to put a “but…” behind the “the motivation was stated clearly” at the time. Sure, as an argument that’s neither here nor there. But you just ignored that I claimed that we didn’t have the same kind of speculation with the older villains. And if we have a change in player behaviour, that would suggest a change, either in the playerbase, or in the triggers that cause the behaviour.
I personally don’t think the way the playerbase worked changed much, but feel free to make that point. I’d rather think that there was a plethora of void whispers, dialogue hints about greater threats and nobler visions, and comments about the villain origins that made the difference here, as well as the devs pretty much going out there and telling us “don’t worry, it isn’t what you think”, when asked about basically any character story beat. And if that’s what triggers the speculation, that’s either deliberate, or incompetence by the devs.
Sure, there would never be speculations, if the playerbase didn’t make them, but blaming them for that is blaming them for caring. The responsibility for directing expectation, and thus speculation, is still a part of the writing team’s job.
First off, I was specifically addressing whether Blizzard actually tried to present the specific villains you referenced as having unknown motivations. For the most part they don’t. The Jailor is the only one they even hinted at having other motives. So, this is not a Blizzard thing.
Second, there were speculations about older villains back in the day. I remember conversations back in the day about both Kael’thas and Vashj during BC trying to figure out what they ‘were really up to.’ During Wrath people speculated that Kel’thuzad had some hidden goal. There were even some people arguing that Arthas, the Lich King, was secretly in league or fighting with Old Gods. Even Garrosh had conversations around his ‘real goal’ back during Cata and MoP. Those conversations absolutely did happen.
Like I said, those conversations did happen. You can argue there are more now days, and that is a fair argument. So I will address that as well.
Know what big variable has changed in the WoW player base? Average age. The average age of players today is older. As a general trend, people start looking for more and more complex stories as they mature. The other stories they will be consuming will have more nuance and variation in motives. That is going to make them look for hidden motives in WoW more. For example, a 24 year old is going to question motives more than a 14 year old. And a 34 more than a 24, 44 more than 34, etc. So, more older players means more looking for the hidden motives.
It is not a completely new thing, as you suggested. It is just more common, as you would expect with more older players.
I don’t think we are entirely on the same page here.
I don’t think speculating on possibilities is a bad thing. So, I am not “blaming” anyone. Speculating can be a very good thing. It can be fun and add to the game. And some of the speculation goes down paths that are never actually answered. Meaning, it ends up as just as valid an explanation as anything. It can also add to the conversation and allow the community to interact. Speculating can, and usually is, a good thing. It is really only a problem when people invest so much in their theory being right that they forget it is speculation.
I was not “blaming” the players. I was pointing out that Blizzard was not setting up some hidden motive and then pulling the rug out.
It is not quite that simple. The only way to completely direct expectations is to flat out state them. Anything short of blatantly stating something leaves open room for speculation. And just blatantly stating everything is also bad story telling.
Take for example, Iridikron. Blizzard has been VERY, VERY clear about his motives. He hates everything Titan. He wants to kill the Titans and wash the world clean of every piece of their influence. It was not remotely subtle. Yet you listed him as one that might have “deeper motives.” The only way Blizzard could have been more clear with him is to come out in a post and state ‘this is his goal, nothing else.’
If you want to speculate on a possible wild ulterior motives, cool. And that might even be fun, so long as you don’t invest in those theories being correct. You have to remember they are speculation.
Ok, if there were discussions to a comparable degree(!) back then that’ll defeat my argument, I guess, and I can’t claim to have followed the ongoing discussions all the time and as far back. Fair enough. I can’t say I find that easy to believe, apart from the occasional crackpot theory, or pre-release discussions when basically everything was unknown, but I can’t offer anything to change your mind on that, either.
Hm, not buying that one, either. I was way more likely to invest in grand theorizing in my teens than I am now. Partly because I am way more likely to accept “yes, they are writing something that stupid” as likely through experience. Learning that there is a basically unlimited amount of crap out there, even from professional creators, doesn’t sound like something that would raise expectations in general to me. I can’t claim to have knowledge here, but it just doesn’t pass my smell test.
Or are you saying that more media experience gives you more experience with the basic rules and tropes of storytelling, while Blizzard consistently violates them? Like expecting information they plant to be relevant to the plots they are building, setups leading to payoffs, and tropes being used with intention? If so, yeah, that might be true, the way older players engage with the story isn’t exactly the same as when it was younger. But that sounds like an even worse indictment for the writing, and I’m not totally sure I’d want to go there right now.
Fair enough, he certainly was a bad example for my point. I think I might just have been wrong in putting him on that list, though, since what I actually remember was more people being impressed by his style as a villain and theorizing about his plans, rather than his motives. But if I’m still misremembering that, I’ll conceed that one.
Even blatantly stating it doesn’t prevent conspiracy theories, sure. It’s not a failure if there is someone, somewhere, who invested too much in his own theory, and is disappointed by what actually happens. It’s when the normal players get the impression that something is going on, and start looking for explanations, that I’d think the writers must have either intended that, or that they must have been culpably negligent. Once again we are arguing impressions, of course, since neither do we have any numbers, nor is there a clear boundary between what’s to be expected and what’s too much. But I remain convinced that there has been a trend of vagueness, teasing, and stretching stories over too many, patches, so that every move gets chewed over for months before the next happens, that lead to speculation that could and should have been expected and directed.
Though development restrictions do muddle this further, of course. I’m personally still convinced that quite a few of the villain stories of the last decade did not play out in the game as they were planned by the writers at first, which makes any foreshadowing they implemented before the change of plan misfire. Not to mention the bottom-up structure that a lot of writing in the game seems to have, which can lead to mixed signals from different directions. So I guess blaming “the writers” isn’t exacly fair as a shorthand. But in the end, everything that goes wrong is a production failure somewhere.
lately I’ve been seeing all these fan projects and crazy ideas people come up with. Not because I want Blizzard to copy them, but because they remind me how passionate people still are about Warcraft.
