Hey Yag, Kyalin wanted me to post this reply from her to you.
Hello Yagarr, I think you’re generally correct in what you’re saying there, but you are missing a critical element. I don’t blame you for missing this element because it generally is not within the Horde player’s experience, but it’s important to consider in relation to rebalancing the rivalry: The ability to be respected and feared by the other side. The Horde has this in spades. If you cross them, they will dismantle your whole military. The War of the Thorns tells us that they can do this, and most importantly, it does so in visual language. Visual language is far stronger than text will ever be, and I think lore nerds in general need to appreciate that most people don’t read books, most people don’t pay attention to dev interviews, and most people don’t even read quest text. When they do, that information doesn’t override what’s put in front of their face - this is why I shrug off claims that the Horde should feel worthless when Nathanos claims that they’re losing on all fronts. What’s that next to fully rendered cinematics of the Horde incinerating an entire country worth of their enemies? What’s that next to the Horde’s very aesthetic? Their usual appearance of dominance in cinematics, artwork, and environmental design? The Alliance largely doesn’t have this. You can riposte with “Jaina”, which partially is fair enough, but what consolation is that to me as a Night Elf player? What does Jaina tell a Dwarf player about their abilities? How about a Draenei player? The answer is “not much” because she just ends up outshining everyone around her - I can’t even claim that the typical Stormwind footman is anyone to be concerned about - not so with a grunt.
This imbalance needs to be corrected too, and in the biggest trouble spots (yes, Night Elves), that does mean we need a strong refutation of the notion that they’re the free kill in the faction war. I think the best analogy that the Horde have to reference to here is Zandalar - and Zandalari players got screwed. They were told that they were this powerful nation with a strong military. Then the Alliance bursts into their house and kills their king. Then they leave for reasons of mercy. This is shot-for-shot what the Night Elf experience felt like to me in the past 10 years - but especially in regards to the War of the Thorns - and it ends in the same gross way that suggestions that the Horde simply give Ashenvale back to the Night Elves appear to me: you didn’t take what was yours back because you could, you got it because your opponent felt bad for you - and that feeling sucks. I don’t want to dive too deep into that as a topic of its own, but I hope it gets you thinking about the impact of morale from our perspective as well. Soldiers do refuse to fight when they think their side is failing them - I don’t think it’s different for players. It’s certainly where I’m at.
Going forward, this is where I disagree with the one thing Treng contributed - his desire to conquer Ironforge. Again, it’s natural to want your side to completely trash the other - but victories that crushing destroy the ability to have the rivalry because of that demoralization. I’ve said this many times: no one cherishes their rivalry with the Cleveland Browns, because the Browns suck. For an MMO, this means that yes, you should not comprehensively humiliate a nation’s military and burn down their capitol. If you want to dominate your opponents, then grind out your PVP gear, work on your strategies, and get that feeling of victory from your own efforts, not from Blizzard handing you a win. Going forward, it also means that, while we yes, look for ways to boost the Horde’s reasons for being in a conflict, that we also look for ways to make the Alliance appear more threatening, and hence, more appealing for someone who wants to roll a powerful-feeling character so that they can indulge in the notion that they’re a powerful conqueror, or an indomitable protector, or whathaveyou based on the work they put in, and the play they engage in.