WoWhead Sunfury Arcane article and Sunfury talent build

Classes Mage
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I saw an article on Wowhead today from Porom, he writes for Wowhead about Arcane Mage. I noticed it seems that neither Porom, nor anyone else who might help him maintain things for Arcane Mages, has actually tried playing Sunfury Arcane this expansion. It feels to me like they just ran sims on raidbots to see what talent combo on paper produces the most DPS for Sunfury Arcane and then put it up on Wowhead as the importable recommended talent build for Sunfury Arcane. They have three COMPLETELY incorrect talents for Sunfury Arcane, and if you try to play their setup you’ll be OOM, complaining, and feeling like the spec is trash. It’s partly because the spec does very low damage and was giga-overnerfed at the start of Midnight (remember the -30% arcane missiles damage patch note? I DO AND I WILL NEVER FORGET OR FORGIVE BLIZZARD). But also partly because the Wowhead Sunfury talent build for M+ is very poorly crafted.

First, they have the Enlightened talent for mana restoration and bonus damage while you maintain high mana levels. Good in theory, and definitely does more for your burst opener than Mana Adept does for you. And yet still it’s such a waste and a noob trap to take Enlightened on a spec like Sunfury Arcane in an era where Arcane Pulse is strong enough to be worth casting and has such high mana costs.

I’m not sure how it compares in sims to Mana Adept, but if you ACTUALLY GO INTO A MYTHIC+ KEY with Sunfury Arcane, you’ll notice Hey, I almost never have any mana in this build, outside of Arcane Surge windows and you’ll quickly see how Mana Adept is the superior choice at our low secondary stat levels here in season 1. Maybe we can run Enlightened in season 2 or 3 with higher Mastery levels for greater max mana and mana regen, but as it stands now, even with 950 secondary stat rating in mastery (puts me around 42-44% mastery if I recall correctly) we need Mana Adept for a smooth rotation throughout keys and even on single target fights right now. Thankfully, mastery scales our damage okay-ish, so it isn’t too bad to stack quite a bit of it for Sunfury.

Additionally, the inclusion of both Arcane Orb and Orb Barrage are both wasted talent points for this build. Beyond that is the GLARING OMISSION of Illuminated Thoughts, which gives +3% chance to proc clearcasting. Maybe this is a sim thing, probably is, but these Arcane Orb talents are COMPLETELY USELESS. Yes, the Arcane Barrage refunds Arcane Charges due to proc’ing a free Orb to grant charges back part is nice, but again if you actually TRY TO PLAY THIS SPEC IN A REAL KEY – something I suspect Porom and other top Arcane Mages have not ACTUALLY tried doing this season because they’ve all likely just been FOTM-meta-slaves and just rocked Spellslinger for max theoretical DPS – you’ll notice that it’s much better to take Illuminated Thoughts than Orb Barrage, as the extra Missiles Procs matter a lot and are very helpful. This is 30% more instances of being able to refund your Arcane Charges via High Voltage.

Clearcasting is a 10% chance baseline, so adding +3% chance to proc takes it up to 13% chance, a 30% increase over how many Missiles you’d get without this talent. That is HUGE and you simply are doing the work of the devil if you try to play Sunfury Arcane without Illuminated Thoughts. I just do not get that choice in the Wowhead ‘recommended’ build AT ALL. It seems insane to me, lol. Again, it looks like one of those “well the sim says it’s best” things – but in actual practice it’s awful to play Sunfury Arcane without Illuminated Thoughts. Do. Not. Do. It.

Each AM proc is basically 2 to 4 Arcane Charges restored nearly GUARANTEED due to us taking High Voltage. And because we also take Focusing Crystal, we have even more synergy going on. You’re reducing the power of High Voltage, a powerful capstone talent that gets even better with tomorrow’s +5% aura buff and +10% Arcane Missiles buff, by taking Orb Barrage over Illuminated Thoughts.

Here’s how to run Sunfury Arcane: import WoWhead’s Sunfury Hero Talent setup, then change the following 3 talents: switch Orb Barrage to Illuminated thoughts. You do not need nor want Orb Barrage. Sunfury Arcane uses NO ARCANE ORB EVER. That’s the rule. That’s the goal now. Orb does hilariously low damage for us, even the uncapped AoE potential of it adds very little to your overall throughput in AoE. Outside of your initial “gather all the mobs at the start of the M+ key and lust” pull, Arcane Orb is very very underwhelming for Sunfury. I recommend, after tens of hours of playtesting Sunfury this season, to NOT take Orb Barrage or Arcane Orb talents.

Next, drop Arcane Orb talent for Consortium’s Bauble. It’s nice to have that extra Arcane Blast damage for priority targets, plus the mana discount lets you spam it a bit more when under heavy mana constraints (such as a long window with a lack of Missiles procs). And because we generate extra AM procs due to Illuminated Thoughts, in my Fixed-Up-Version of the Wowhead Sunfury talent build, we can rely on Missiles to restore charges via High Voltage, and so we do not worry about completely dropping Arcane Orb. We are not without ways to quickly generate Charges – just press Missiles. So you have to think ahead, and you want to often think “I have 1 Clearcasting proc – I must SAVE IT for after I next cast Barrage” – if you have an itchy trigger finger for Arcane Missiles, it may make you play poorly and cast AM at the wrong time, meaning you won’t have an AM charge for after your next 25-salvo Barrage. You must think ahead with your rotation if you want to play Sunfury Arcane well in Midnight.

Lastly, drop Enlightened and replace it with Mana Adept. This will fix your mana issues singlehandedly.

Now, play as you would expect, and always think, “I cannot Barrage unless I have a Missiles proc to get my charges back.” If you play smart you will almost never be caught without a Missiles proc to bring back your charges instantly and keep your damage rotation flowing smoothly. You also want to stack a fair bit of Mastery. With a +165 Mastery Flask, I’d aim to be at 900-950 Mastery rating, then putting the rest into haste and a bit of crit. IDK much about vers this season, but I only have about 100 vers rating and that feels ok to me. Maybe I should have 50-100 more, IDK. Who cares.

Just had to spout off about the terrible WoWhead talent build that seems written by a sim-addicted person rather than a person who has ACTUALLY tried playing their ‘recommended’ talent setup. If you try the Wowhead Sunfury arcane talent setup, you’ll be OOM and deal no damage. Try my version for superior results in keys.

I just cannot believe the wowhead guide is so wrong. Anyone who’s actually played Sunfury will know the severe mana issues and how Arcane Orb does soooooooooo little damage on Sunfury that it isn’t worth taking any talent points in it. Yes, in theory Arcane Orb is out best uncapped AoE spell – maybe our only apart from Arcane Explosion ? – and yet it is not worth it in Sunfury. Orb’s baseline damage is too low, and we give up 3% of our total 13% chance to proc Arcane Missiles just to get Orb Barrage. 3 divided by 13 is 0.23, which means we give up 23% of our TOTAL AM procs by not taking Illuminated Thoughts. It is batcrap crazy to do that! Wowhead’s talent build is COMPLETELY WRONG and running it is totally not worth it. You’ll just feel bad if you try it, because of, sadly, 3 wrong talent choices. The days of Sunfury using Arcane Orb – for anything, ever – are over. At least for now.

Again, I do not care what sims say. The wowhead build, if you actually try to run it for M+, is terrible. It leaves you OOM and feeling bad. Don’t play it. Change 3 talent points and you can run a much better feeling version of the build.

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It will be OK.. we have room at the bottom of the meters for everyone.

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Ok, lots to unpack here OP. I saw your comments on Porom’s article on Wowhead and now I am reading this post and I can confidently tell you that you’re suffering from a major case of confirmation bias. Just because in your limited experience you’ve found a build that works for you it does not mean that said build is effective let alone competitive when compared to literally any other build.

I’ve playing as Arcane exclusively for going on 22 years. Over the years I’ve frequently disagreed with Porom on the direction in which the spec should go though rarely with his criticism of Blizzard’s questionable design choices which has typically been on point. In this instance I am in complete agreement with him and that should tell you something.

Anyway, I am happy you’ve managed to carve out a niche for yourself with Sunfury Arcane but it is in no way viable as it is miles behind Spellslinger Arcane and Arcane is pretty much dead last of all the DPS specs. This really isn’t up for debate as it is backed by rock solid data and heaps of it too.

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I don’t think you realize how frustrating this is to hear from a top’s perspective. I haven’t bottomed since college and at my age I can’t be expected to learn new things. Also maybe open up Grindr? We have a national top shortage and a glut of bottoms. Why would I add to that just because Blizzard can’t balance!? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Wait, Ilm wrote that dumbass comment?

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When did this vitriol and harsh criticism for Porom begin?

Your post comes across as a long unresolved rant then a helpful suggestion.

Because you found a build that works for you?

That doesn’t quite explain the harsh criticism you’re showing towards that particular player.

The thing is, it’s not only Porom - it is about competitive play, and at the high-end, that is everything. Everything is considered closely to optimize for best outcomes and those outcomes are reveled through several sources to analyze, dissect, and evaluate - not just Wowhead exclusively.

So hey, I’m happy YOU found a build that works for you but publicly reducing a player that has only done his best to promote mage play is tacky and in bad taste.

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Bro shuffled the salt and pepper shakers and thinks he renovated the whole kitchen.

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I agree with Porom’s point here:

“Arcane Salvo, particularly with Polished Focus and Intuition, is so prescriptive and so expensive that using it correctly can run you out of mana quickly and halt your rotation entirely.”

This spec has no fluidity.

Also with this:

“While it is only about 5% behind in single target (keep in mind that Arcane is currently one of the worst single target specs), it is more than 20% behind in most cleave/AOE situations. Arcane Missiles, which Sunfury uses over Orb due to lack of talent synergies, just does not keep pace with Arcane Orb in AOE, resulting in Sunfury builds just not keeping up. This problem is further compounded on by needing to spec into Aether Attunement in cleave/AOE, which means you simply do not have the points remaining to justify picking up Arcane Pulse.”

Maybe with the buffs today sunfury missiles build can compete with orb in ST but it doesn’t stand a chance I’m aoe or cleave. Are there any raid bosses that are purely ST?

There are just too many talents you’d want to take as well and you’d still be dealing this intuition.

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Ilm, just chat to us in Arcane Dream if you want to discuss Sunfury stuff or Arcane in general, you don’t have to make vague call out posts to Porom on Wowhead.

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Yeah, we’ve got a few: Vorasius, Salhadaar, and Belo’ren (depending on your strat). It also comes down to your assignment—if your group already melts adds, you might be better off staying pure single‑target, especially if we’re not getting the burst windows we need.

It’s just nice to have the option.

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL :rofl:

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Arcane is about burst windows. You’re trying too hard to make a constant mana build instead of bursting and then doing resource management. To that end you’re downplaying the extra burst with talents like Enlightened. That 6% during Surge burst is big.

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you used all your words - can i get a video?

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too long did not read

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Sims and talent recommendations are based on what does the most damage. Your recommendations are based on feelings. Yes, the recommended build runs out of mana and feels bad, this is not brand new information to the theory crafters. It still does more damage, which is why it is recommended.

You want to play what feels good, play what you want. Guides will continue to tell people which talents to run to do more damage than you, which is what players read guides for.

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That simply isn’t true. Only hardcore gamers care about min maxing damage. The overwhelming majority of players, particularly those who are so casual they don’t even engage with the talent trees and instead just straight up copy and paste builds from places like Wowhead, are being done a major disservice by being offered only the optimized builds and not more player friendly “comfy” builds.

All that said, the OP clearly lives in a bubble and has a whole host of other issues going on.

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And why do you think someone would look up a pre-existing build if they weren’t looking for which one does more damage in the first place?

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Well like I said, most players do not engage with the talent tree system at all. They’re not looking for a particular build they just want to start playing the game immediately without getting bogged down in the minutia. So they completely abdicate all agency and rely on others to do the work for them only to then have absolutely no idea what’s going on. You can see examples of this on the forums weekly with people asking where ability x or y went not even realizing that the build they copied specced them out of it.

We talk about the OP’s confirmation bias but most of us regular forum goers and long time WoW players are guilty of that too when we assume that everyone understands and engages with the game in the same way and to the same extend we do. Why do you think Blizzard felt the need to simplify the game in recent years and even come with a tool like the one button rotation helper? It’s because the game has gotten incredibly bloated and needlessly complicated after 22 years which makes it unapproachable for new or casual players.

And yet most guides you can find online don’t take any of that into account and assume everyone wants to do cutting edge content when in reality that’s a tiny fraction of the playerbase. It’s also worth noting that this is almost exclusively a WoW only problem. Most other MMOs have a whole host of content creators who make simpler and more player friendly builds. MMOs like ESO thrive on this and there is a reason WoW devs started to consider these factors after Microsoft (which also owns the studio that made ESO) took over.

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I understand the heart of what you are saying I just think you downplay why these guides have talent builds in the first place.

The people that are looking up Porom’s Wowhead guide are already looking for information on how to improve at Arcane so minmaxing the talent build for the best damage, defensive and utility output makes sense for them.

Most people that aren’t engaging with the talent system are just going to pick whatever or what they like the look of and that’s fine, most of them aren’t really going to be doing content where having a good talent loadout is necessary to defeat that content.

Porom actually did have an easy mode version of the guide last expansion but people kept assuming they had to start with the absolute most advanced version of it and would find that they were drowning because they bit off a bit too much for what they could handle on a spec they hadn’t played before. The easy mode version was only ~1% worse than the advanced version.

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Counterpoint: It’s not a very engaging system.

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