That is true but do systems upon systems feel like good content or busy work ?
Thank the diablo devs for the nonsensical chores that you have to do to stay relevant. But hey legion was so good right?
Not too closely, and not really caring.
I’d rather the developers would spend their time developing new content rather than wasting their time creating systems upon systems for the express intent of dragging out what limited content they put out as long as possible.
Those systems don’t make for a good experience. Furthermore, it has a tendency to ruin the experience of the content as they drag it out more and more.
I’m here for a good time, not for a long time.
OK I’m gonna have to give this here
5 
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This Tauren gets it .
I’m not too sure what you mean by ‘busy work’, we’re playing a videogame here, after all. As for the systems on top of systems, this mostly boils down to mechanical design. The only tedious aspect of these systems is leveling up your neck or cloak. I don’t enjoy these insofar as having alts is concerned, but the concept of leveling up your piece of legendary gear through whatever content is required is fine be me. It’s an MMO, there are going to be grinds. I guess it’s up to the player to find enjoyment out of it, and some people do. And if they don’t, they just accept it for what it is and carry on regardless.
Nothing wrong with grinds if it is a good grind .
Grinding rep because you want that faction’s tabbard or say flying mount is a good grind .
Grinding rep just so you can play that faction or use the flying mount form another faction is not.
Grinding raids for your bis feels good
Grinding all forms of content not knowing what your bis is or if there even is one doesn’t.
Grinding levels to get new abilities (passive or active) to make your toon feel stronger feels good
Grinding systems upon systems over and over just to get back abilities taken away (mostly passives) does not.
Busy work is putting things into the game that make people go if I don’t keep logging on I’ll fall to far behind .
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Well TBC and wrath did alright? They always need to come out with new content but there is a level of satisfaction to be had with achieving bis and being able to enjoy it?
These endless treadmill type grinds like azerite power feel unsatisfying as they’re never ending and your character is never complete. Like bfa wasn’t doing any better sub wise than any previous expansion? Covid times might have changed that up a bit but before it they definitely were not.
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These two sentences don’t match up. The fact that you could do whatever after finishing your character was fun. Meant you could take in the world instead of always having a chore to do.
leveling a necklace on every toon is unacceptable
The 2-3 days it takes to get it to lvl 80?
This is the thing I would like to see more of… truly OPTIONAL content that offers no player power. Pet battles right now are a good example. Some people love them and spend lots of time and energy on them, but those who don’t can skip them without character power punishment.
For me, the Chromie instance was something I got into very much. I wasn’t in there all the time, but when I went in it might be 10p and I’m saying: “I’ll run a couple” then at 3:30a, I’m still saying: “Okay, just ONE MORE, then I really have to go to bed!!” and not wanting to leave. Noodletime was another for me. I ran it all the time and for a long time very frequently still came back to it after MoP was over. Both of those are also cases of things which could be completely ignored by players disinterested in them and the rewards weren’t going to impact the next time they try to get into a raid/group.
These are examples of things that were FUN for players. Not ALL players, but those who liked them ran them without need of character power rewards forcing them to do it and others could SKIP THEM ENTIRELY. These are the kinds of things we need more of… It’s like the difference between the MoP farm (completely able to ignore it if you’re not into it and even a completely upgraded farm offers no significant rewards even from the crops to be breaking to any player not running it) and the garrison (not optional in the slightest and has a chokehold on character power due to the cape you needed to have if you wanted to get into any group at all). Some people still loved the garrison, of course… but a lot of us would dearly love to burn down our garrisons with whatever oil we have leftover in the naval yard. We hated it and had no option to skip it. We were strongarmed into completing it if we wanted our characters to be competitive and, frankly, it made at least me detest that whole expansion with passion. That’s what strongarming players into something causes.
TL:DR … It’s a bad goal to force EVERYone to do EVERYthing in the game. Give people fun things to do and various types of players will participate happily and it’s okay that not EVERYone is participating in EVERYthing.
For me, the content ends when I’ve finished the quest lines, dungeons, and run the raid once on LFR. Grinding for gear is pointless, unless you’re just trying to complete a transmog set.
There really isn’t anything to grind for except maybe allied races. You can literally do raidfinder and see the content.
Only other thing I can think of are cosmetics, pets, and toys from reputation grinds but no one is going to judge you for not having those.
I loved MoP for all those reasons. It was fun hanging out at the shrine watching people duel and occasionally get into one myself, while engaging in trade chat. There was always something going on like the world boss tours, attack on Stormwind, groups looking for an extra person in a raid, or players just talking about random stuff.
I hope they are able to cultivate this type of community interaction in Shadlowlands. That kind of lively environment is what made me fall in love with WoW to begin with.
I mean you can do that. You don’t need to do keys past +15. You only need to do one per week and hope for the best in your box. You only need to log on at raid times for whatever content your guild does and be done with it after. That’s it. Do an invasion once per week and get enough vessels to boost your cloak/maybe get a good corruption on a 470 if you need it.
There’s no need to push more stuff than that. Absolutely none. It’s all in your head and you’re chasing your tail at that point to get the best possible combination of things. I mean you could be superrrrrrrrrrr unlucky and have NO gear at all with good corruptions this far in on your main and somehow none of your mates traded you junk they don’t need or anything at all. Even then it’s more your luck sucks than anything.