The content is pretty grindy. I don’t mind that if the carrot was big enough. Sadly I don’t feel it is.
I don’t know I can literally go from level 1 to 60 with 220 gear within a month. Something In classic I wouldn’t even reach max level. I really don’t feel it’s super grindy. Hit max level do quest line get 197 ilvl in a day. Then the grind of Conquest from doing low mmr 2s.
I don’t think it’s that bad.
1 Like
People complained back then too about nothing to do outside of raids and nothing for casuals not interested in dungeons and raids.
Others liked the simplicity.
Blizzard knows stagnation is the worst thing that can happen though so they try and change things up every expansion.
Shadowlands actually dialed it back a bit. You can pretty much only dungeon and raid and be fine for the vast majority of content other than doing a few Torghast runs for a legendary. The rest can be ignored pretty much.
3 Likes
It wouldn’t be bad if all (or even most) of the options led to the same goals. It doesn’t feel like options when everything has its own unique currency to worry about, it just feels like an enormous chores list to pick from.
Do I let the laundry pile up or the dishes? I guess I could do both, but where’s the time to do something fun? 
Maybe but as a pvper I only farm conquest. I don’t worry about all the other ones. Idk.
This is obvious bait.
“Back in my day we all enjoyed getting ganked in Hellfire or in starting zones”
1 Like
Classic shows that most people love world PvP so much almost all servers are already 1 faction dominated.
1 Like
And I’m glad most of the people who enjoy “wpvp” (i.e. 2 shotting lowbies) in classic have their containment servers
2 Likes
The layers of indirection and split focus can get bothersome. I didn’t see anything wrong with just plain old drops and vendors, especially in WotLK where the same handful of vendors served players of multiple walks.
It’s good that they’re trying to provide things to do outside of instanced PvE, but I think the attempt is flawed in that it can feel pointless too easily. Once you’ve geared up as far as you can outside of dungeons/raids, what do you actually do with that gear?
Actually, this problem exists in instanced PvE too but gearing out is drawn out enough that people don’t complain about it as much, but once it finally hits that’s when you get a content drought. Ultimately the entire game is about procuring gear and the only thing to use that gear for is procuring more gear, so once you run out of gear to chase you’re out of things to do until next patch. Sure there’s cosmetics to chase, but you don’t need gear for most of that, and if you are geared you burn through that stuff even more quickly.
Maybe this is a part where I’m missing something, I have focused on the quest line mainly, but keep running into blocks. I hit a wall saying I need more renown to advance the story and it doesn’t give me an option or direction on how to level up renown.
I did hit 20 renown from a WQ but now the wall again, I don’t see how you can do this in a day
1 Like
You are a DH too and they did not exist when WoW used to be simple
2 Likes
I mean getting to 220 isn’t bad. But maxing all sockets, renown and legendary is pretty grindy. I know it’s to optimize and I wouldn’t mind on one toon but I made the mistake of gearing two alts.
Honestly I would be ok with just main if there was endless grind to update. Like the azerite neck. Or wf tf
Artifact weapon > azerite neck for me. With the artifact you could feel power increase from leveling it, especially in BGs since that was the only piece of gear immune to scaling. On the other hand if it weren’t for trait requirements I wouldn’t have even known what level my Heart of Azeroth was.
1 Like
That actually was the best.
1 Like
I’d wager that people who truly like PVP are playing better games for PVP these days.
There were some authentic WPVP situations back in the day, with Tarren Mill vs Southshore and the towers in BC zones, even on unbalanced server populations.
But, yeah, WPVP has always been a bit of a crap show on most servers.
I never really got into PVP in this game, personally, nor have I ever truly just focused on one thing. Honestly, leveling and professions has always been my main game, raiding second and dungeons third.
Retail really isn’t landing for my playstyle. End game has gotten more complicated and leveling has gotten too simple to feel like any sort of progression play is there.
It just feels like they took progression out of most of the world, but that could have everything to do with the reward structure. Can’t really put my finger on it.
But classic and FFXIV scratch that itch that retail isn’t, so I can’t complain too much. I do wish Retail hit that itch so I didn’t have to look at Classic (seriously, it looks horrible, there’s no Xmog, it sucks all around visually). But the gameplay is more fun. 
4 Likes
I’m deff not trying to min max, so I’ve skipped sockets. I only did the maw a few times on each while trying to get renown levels to get the 197 cov gear. After that I really didn’t care.
I don’t do any of the command table or anything, I don’t even bother to unlock that stuff.
Torghast def gets a bit tiresome on multiple toons. But I try to limit the need for multiple leggos. Sometimes I have to get more than 1 which sucks. Def not a fan of being forced to do torghast as leggo is very important for all forms of content.
When I say 220, that’s as much as most people actually need. Sure 226 is more powerful but you can overcome 6 ilvl gaps.
TBH I felt BFA grind was worse to get (mainly essences on each toon).
Yeah I really enjoy classic and retail for completely different reasons (which is a little funny since it’s just evolution of the original game).
I don’t think I would want their styles to overlap.
1 Like
PvP in WoW can still be fun IMO, but you have to check any expectations of competitiveness/fairness/balance at the door and critically, avoid small form PvP like arena and WPvP. In small form PvP there will always be comically broken FotM specs that people flock to, and you will never encounter anybody of the same ilvl unless your character is geared to the teeth itself. BGs need some help too but at least there you’ve got numbers padding out FoTMs and adding entropy to throw wrenches into matches that would normally have fixed outcomes.
I miss crafting … it wasnt simple, but was a huge part of the game, and what a lot of people i played with really enjoyed and focused on…
1 Like
Nah, I just need retail to have a better feeling of progression outside of raids and dungeons, personally. That and professions need to matter. That’s huge for me.
As someone said, Legion Artifacts were absolutely amazing. Would love to see something like that come back around, and maybe even bleed into leveling.
Nothing in Shadowlands feels meaningful, or maybe it’s all too meaningful? It’s hard to tell. I just know that IDK what to focus on when I play. There’s so much to do and I can’t justify doing one thing over the other, so I don’t do any of it because it’s overwhelming.
Maybe that’s where the OP is coming from.