If I couldn’t just randomly log in and think “Hey, I’m going to spend the next 30 minutes chewing away at a T11 because I want to” it would be time for me to quit.
If I have to approach a play session with a planned schedule in order to maximize my time spent then I’d be better off not playing the game at all. I clearly have more important priorities I should be focusing on and an approach that will make MOST of what I do on the game feel like a requirement or chore more than a fun activity.
For example, if I don’t have 30 minutes that I can comfortably throw away on a failed key then I would be better off, as would the group I could join, with choosing not to pug and playing with a group of friends at another time.
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Worse case for me was being in a BFA raid
Oh look Moon Guard is here. Do you even know how to raid? Why did you leave Goldshire
Long ago I learned that I make a mistake, I’ll probably be kicked.
I got kicked for resetting a Legion boss. I’ve been kicked from call of duty and other multiplayer servers.
I’ve been kicked for doing too well and making others look bad. It is the way of life for online games.
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Some people you pug with are jerks, be how any community works online or off.
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I don’t disagree with that, but the reality is that those people exist and the best way to avoid them is to make friends with people who aren’t nasty to others.
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This is part of why I avoid guild groups filling with pugs in LFG.
You make one of them look less than good and it can get ugly.
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It’s funny you said FF14 becasue I’ve seen PF group for savage/extremes that blow up after a wipe just as fast as losers leaving keys.
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Can’t wait for the game to fail for another 20 years 
But yea people that plays wow have been playing for longer than most games, there’s high expectations considering that you are easily replaceable nowadays and that there are less excuses when ressources like guides, videos or even discords can help you.
They’ve also made the game so accessible that everyone ends up competing against each others and that there ain’t much reason to join a guild or find a community most of the time. It’s not that you’re bad, simply that someone else is ready to put more efforts than you so why wouldn’t people want this kind of people instead?
They should find those people, create the environment that keeps those people around, and then leave those expectations at the door when they join a random queue.
It is certainly each person’s own responsibility to improve at the game.
It is also each person’s own responsibility to surround themselves with like minded players.
However, when player 1 meets with player 2 in a random queue it is not player 1’s responsibility to be the like minded player that player 2 prefers.
If you “don’t have time for random pug shenanigans” then don’t queue for a random.
Was the “mistake” buttpulling half the dungeon, never using an interrupt a single time, or blowing up the group because you didn’t know what to do with a mechanic?
I don’t see kicks for basic minor things. Even going the wrong way, pulling tons of stuff that isn’t needed, or the occasional death. I -DO- see kicks when getting combative/silently ignoring those things, getting snippy when the rest of the group clearly disagrees, or for egregious failures. And I vote yes without hesitation.
- “P4S P2 PROG GROUP”
- Wipe at 2nd Pinax first pull
- Say nothing
- Leave duty
- Add 7 more people to the blacklist
The PF shuffle as I call it
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In random pug content the majority rules, player 1 or player 2 might get their way. It always has worked like this. There’s also no obligations to keep playing with people you dislike, I have left many groups because I would rather not play with them even if it’s wasting my own time doing so. As far as content with a leader it’s simply up the leader to decide, if people disagree with him then they can leave which I’ve also done many times.
But that’s also my point, the game should funnel people more into content without having to pug. For me it’s a failure of the system that guilds are so much cosmetics nowadays.
wow is a great game for the self conscious (obsessed). they added all this solo content, forums pretty fast on hiding posts, you can just solo que into another group if you don’t like yours cut and dry. you can just queue a raid, or even do it with bots
Because some of us are adults with jobs, kids, and work. We also have the ability to show compassion to other people who may be new to the game or to that dungeon so we won’t toss an immature hissy fit if they can’t keep up with a speed pace. WoW Classic has hardcore servers for those specific group of people, why not make flag certain pug groups “toxic people for speed run” only?
Join a guild and don’t pug OP.
if one is unwilling to join and help build a community, why would the community care about you
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i don’t have these types of issues in any game but wow.
wow is just a really rough community and its well known in the gamin community lol.
edit: responded to wrong person, didnt mean to respond to anacharsis.
OP please mix in a paragraph break or two
As much as people like to meme about it most people in wow are adults with jobs and work. Some of them have kids and must make choices, there’s tons of dad gamers at this point that manage to play at a high level.
Moreover for many compassion might as well be asking for charity when there are like I said tons of ressources to get you to a decent level, you expecting your group to not care about your performance for me can easily be seen as something disrespectful toward them.
But like I said this is a problem because the game funnels people into pugs because they want the game to be very accessible. If you had a guild or a group of players with the same expectations there wouldn’t be this kind of problem as much. This is the cost of pugging and there’s no way to make pugging reliable, pugging is random which means people expectations will also be random.
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With the addition of Delves, Follower Dungeons and Story Mode Raids we now get to see pretty much the entire story.