Would it be so bad if


#99

What about race? The point of different races is to affect gameplay. That’s how it’s been from the very start.


(Tormund) #101

ok…

and your gender cannot/should not… because?


(Tharmok) #102

Its a stupid mechanic all away around you’re too inept to see it. Want a game where it does that go play it oh wait not a whole to choose from considering game developers know its stupid.


(Tormund) #103

HI THARMOK

Thank you for your input. I really do appreciate the original comment you have made in my thread. Please feel free to keep adding your unique and thoughtful ideas. I’m sure no one else can come close to your edgy, enterprising tone.

/sarcasm


(Tharmok) #104

Hi Tormund Thank you for adding your topic where it falls under the category of being an mundane topic. Im sure you’ll be able to continue that trend and no one will be able to usurp it. Dumbass.


(Tormund) #105

But who was grammar?


(Enkki) #106

Call me “old school” if you must, but no … just no. The ONLY requirement to be a lumberjack is the ability to carry your end of the log. Doesn’t matter what race you are, doesn’t matter what gender you are, doesn’t matter what your political stance is … just carry your end of the log. If you can do that, be a lumberjack.

Same concept holds true for WoW. Class should not be enhanced or toned-down based on the character’s gender. You can either do warrior stuff, or you can’t … you can either do hunter stuff, or you can’t … you can either do warlock stuff, or you can’t. Gender should not be a factor in the equation. That’s a concept pretty much disproven by Queen Bodica, Joan of Arc, the French resistance in WW2, USSR fighter pilots in WW2, the Israeli army, the armies of both North and South Korea, and the Peoples’ Republic of China army and air force. It doesn’t belong in the 21st century’s gaming industry.


#107

I’m sorry, but that’s just factually incorrect. Gender originally was only used in a grammatical sense, as in the class you’re communicating in (feminine, masculine, common or neuter). It was only adopted as a more polite variant of the term ‘sex’ due to grammatical gender being loosely based around ‘sex’.

If you look up the Oxford definition of ‘gender’ you’ll find that these days gender is used for societal differences and sex is used for biological differences.


(Tormund) #108

I wont call you old school, and please tell me, how many female lumberjacks do you suppose there are in the world? There’s something called an exception, not to be confused with the norm.

I’ll go ahead and bite on your "Gender should not be a factor in the equation. That’s a concept pretty much disproven by Queen Bodica, Joan of Arc, the French resistance in WW2, USSR fighter pilots in WW2, the Israeli army, " comment.

Uh no. Wherever you got that from, I’d really suggest researching those ‘facts’

I’d venture to say, you may not be very learned on any of those historical references? I’m thinking those women you mentioned from history probably were less renown for their physical prowess, and more for their leadership/charisma (hysteria). i dont think any of them had any advantage over an average Jo Schmoe.

I’m dead serious about the following: The physical disparity between men and women is staggering. I should kind of know, i’m into strength stuff, (shooting for a 500 lbs bench hopefully in 6 months yey). On the female side of lifting, its rare to see 300+ lbs, on a woman. It prob happens but not near at the rate, or even longevity of a man. Even if you see that, its probably DECADES of training. While an average bloke will/should take a year less to press that same amount. That isn’t just hormonal but also physiological - within the musculature (more fast twitch fibers) - but also all the way to the skeletal… and even digestive system is different. There’s prob more to be had, but I’ll stop. At least, this is all what I’ve come to understand.

Here’s a figure, to put in perspective and really convey the difference: a trained weak/average male, has the potential of being stronger than the world strongest woman. I am not kidding around. I reckon the disparity is that huge. You’re not going to hear society float around that factoid, definitely not in the movies, but it is the case.

Now there can be some genetic anomalies with chromosomes. but that’s probably really the exception+.

Lastly on reality stuff: I’m thinking your more modern military reference is faulty. I’d suspect the data actually still indicates that males are still, overwhelmingly, more fit for front line combat, and the few female exceptions that do make it, i’d question their physical sustainability to do so - in regards to longevity. Aside from that, I believe Israel dropped women from combat past few years (vaguely remember hearing this). This is all not to say woman cannot fight in war, but rather men have a significant… extreme advantage.

Do i think an exaggerative game like wow should fully encapsulate this reality: NO. Wow isn’t that kind of game. However, putting basic elements that mimic, slightly mirror our reality, kinda like swords, armour, castles, is a great way to make things a little believable or relatable. Giving a choice for a character to be male and female is but one choice the player will make on their journey. I see it as a tame yet colorful/fun way to distinguish capabilities - which is important in any MMORPG.


(Caelus) #109

Dude, just give it up and accept that you had a bad idea. Nobody’s going to read your extremely long post about gender this-and-that. It’s a bad idea, objectively. Everyone knows this and you are blind to it because of ego or something.


(Tharmok) #110

Hes an idiot Caelus he wont bother to see how inane his idea is. The whole concept is just stupid. For one gender to gain advantage over the other is terrible. Don’t think there is a game that has his lame idea in it.


(Tormund) #111

Dude im just passing the time. I’m at work.

I’m gonna take a guess about u tho, u came walking into this thread, blundering around reading random posts, and now what to sound like the cool guy that knows whatsup?

Thank you for contributing to this thread…?

You friends with Tharmok?


(Tharmok) #112

Caelus agreeing with me doesn’t mean were friends Caelus and many others in this post sees how idiotic your idea is.


(Sevaira) #113

Why does this matter? Yeah we get it, men have higher strength in general making them far more suited for physical combat in the real world. Why does this need to be reflected in the game? What does this add to the game that significantly increases the joy of it?


(Tormund) #114

It’s not about capturing realism so much, just adding some other means of player choice… that isn’t convoluted.

LIke i wrote just a bit ago:

Do i think an exaggerative game like wow should fully encapsulate this reality: NO. Wow isn’t that kind of game. However, putting basic elements that mimic, slightly mirror our reality, kinda like swords, armour, castles, is a great way to make things a little believable or relatable. Giving a choice for a character to be male and female is but one choice the player will make on their journey. I see it as a tame yet colorful/fun way to distinguish capabilities - which is important in any MMORPG.


(Sevaira) #115

Player choice still exists, you can choose to be female or male. Nothing is stopping that, in reality your suggestion would be more harmful. In a game that is often about min/max, where people have optimal class/race combos, adding stats depending on one’s sex would make it worse.

Additionally I can’t think of how any of this offsets the emotional impact of yet another thing reiterating to women that they on average less muscle tone therefore less physical strength to that of a man. This would be diminishing the escapism from the real world and daily issues they often face.


#116

Because gender has always served as an exclusively cosmetic option since the game was released, as in next to every other game. To change it so suddenly would not sit well with anyone. How would you feel if they removed all racials from the game?


(Tormund) #117

There’s only so much of a budget of believability you have to maintain - in escapism. To some degree, a different genre is required when it crosses the threshold. Since WOW is a medieval fantasy, I’d say where im coming from, is more consistent with the feel of the game, than trying to respect the player that is looking for some extra escape from some insecurity around physical disparity or perceived gender oppression.

I understand you’re trying to find the faults. I can appreciate that. BUT where you are coming from is predicated on the idea people are looking for escape absolutely from reality - which is not wow. Wow uses elements of our reality to make it believable.

I mean, yea wow is trending down the path of making everything the same, including class design, but over all, that trend towards sameness makes it bland. There’s something to be said for making things distinguishable - discernible, set apart.

Of these things we can contrast, or should contrast in a fantasy setting, race and gender is pretty basic and sensical. I’m not promoting realism, as I offer merely a diametric balancing method for choosing male or female - so its not as if either or is superior - just different. As to how to make this a practical, implementable choice, that’s the tough part, but i think its doable. Probably way easier than the artifact nonsense of Legion.

Lastly, min/maxing:

Yes it will add another layer of people frustrated about what is the most optimized build. While i can appreciate that approach, it cannot be the standard a game developer respects entirely. Sometimes, i think you have to ignore that crowd and consider the lore - the internal consistency and the general fun factor - not just analyzing everything like a math nerd.


#118

You see how this would limit player choice right? All you are doing is making it so every spec would have an optimal race and sex. So its not really a choice. Oh im going feral druid, so I play a male for more damage. It is stupid. It takes away the choice that people have to play whatever sex they like better. There is a reason blizz has tried to make racials equal


(Sevaira) #119

What? I am not sure there is enough there to go on. WoW does not use stuff to make it believable, they use similar aspect to the real world so our brains can comprehend its setting. It uses as much as any medium does when they decide to keep the appearance of water blue, because that is what we see it as thus can comprehend it immediately.

Adding specific traits to sexes does not do this in the same way, especially in this current era of western culture. It only exists for the sake of social commentary.