Doing 1 RDF group a day is hardly some huge issue if you genuinely care that much about min maxxing.
Especially since it’s a better experience doing so than chat pugging.
And also I see you ignored that both 10 and 25 man will drop good badges from launch, meaning those 14 badges or whatever it’ll come out to in VP are a miniscule amount.
I think Blizz should have taken a neutral approach and released it at the same time into the game as the original, with ICC. I see a lot of vitriol on both sides; one side says the game isnt authentic with it while the other says the game isnt authentic without it. The truth lies somewhere in the middle because RDF released with the last content patch.
It is not often that Blizz can make a decision that pleases everyone. In this case, Blizz had an easy out and chose to pick a side in a rare occasion where everyone could have been happy with the OG approach and communication to support.
As far as the community goes, there is a lot of truth on both sides. There is also a lot of outlandish things said on both sides. The idea of #nochanges is often misused. Even when it is used correctly, people forget that #nochanges isnt infallible and there’s a clear reason why Blizz chose to try #somechanges.
Unfortunately, #somechanges grew to include boosts and storemounts. This poisoned the well so to speak, and made a lot of people distrustful of Blizzard taking liberties with the game.
The other truth is that perhaps RDF isnt as game defining as some people make it out to be. Sure, the exact way it was executed is intrinsic to the spirit of WotLK; but no one seems to be making a case for executing RDF in an authentic way. Half of people want it right now and the other half doesnt want it never - there is no common ground or authenticity in that kind of logic.
Blizz would be wise to just nut up and put this dog back in its crate. Release RDF with ICC and stop playing favorites with its fanbase.
You have all those options too if rdf is added. But still you claimed you were forced to use it. What you don’t have is the ability to use the lfg chat channel unless you use the new tool. You are literally forced to use the new tool if you want to use lfg chat. This is getting way off topic. You claimed I want to force people group with me using the rdf. I want to give everyone as much choice as possible. What we have now is people forced to use the new tool. Those who are against the rdf are just huge hypocrites.
That’s not a truth, that’s your subjective opinion. The truth is wrath is not authentic if rdf isn’t added. When it should be added is a subjective opinion. A reasonable case can be made that it should be added at launch since at launch we’re getting the 3.3 patch when it was added. That’s an opinion. You can have a different opinion but you can’t claim it’s the truth.
You use “truth” a lot in this post. I agree with some of your opinions in this post, some I disagree with. But you really should stop claiming truth is on your side.
So its not a truth that RDF released with the last major content patch?
Be careful now. Google disagrees with you. Facts disagree with you. You gotta have a REAL well thought out witty answer to not make yourself sound like an idiot right about now.
I’d in fact suggest you give some ground and admit that youre wrong on that.
Yes that’s true. But it’s not what you said. So are you lying about what you said or just stupid? We had a good conversation before. Don’t start acting like an as and we can have one again. Here is what you said.
“The truth lies somewhere in the middle.” It doesn’t. In your opinion the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I one hundred percent disagree with that opinion. The fact that rdf was released in the last patch doesn’t at all convince me that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. In fact it seems irrelevant as to whether the game is more authentic with or without the rdf.
So… instead of being given badges for items that don’t exist yet, they give lower reward badges that were more like the cata implementation, where over the course of the expansion they got to expand on the system and increase the value of the rewards over time as new sets came out.
Then we have a different definition of reading comprehension.
Im not trying to be a jerk. But quite literally there was no version of original Wrath that either of included RDF from the very beginning or not at all.
…and so the truth lies, in fact, in between these two absolutes.
What is the truth is that in classic blizzard has been releasing features and balance that were from the last patch. Only content has had progressive releases. Given that RDF at launch of wrath classic would be consistent with how classic has been handled so far.
It just means that pve badge gear will work the same as pvp gear, you’ll have two currencies one for current tier and one all older tier. When each new tier comes out your VP will just convert down to the lower tier currency.
It’s simpler but it doesn’t really actually change anything.
Did you post, one side says the game isnt authentic with it while the other says the game isnt authentic unless it is added at the very beginning? No you did not. If that was what you meant then you should have written more clearly. I replied to what you posted. I’m not a mind reader.
One side says not authentic with it. The other side says not authentic without it. Thats what I wrote originally. Thats what Im writing now. If somehow, that was confusing, I apologize. Though I feel that for the most part I’m very careful with my words, it might just be the case that you and I are talking past one another. I can accept that.
I am supportive of having a RDF. However there is one disadvantage of having RDF that I have never seen any supporter of RDF cover. And I believe this is the main underlying issue why Blizzard refuses to implement RDF. Even as a supporter of RDF, I cannot convince myself of anyway to argue against this particular disadvantage of having a RDF. I hope one of you can come up with a logical argument why this disadvantage is not significant.
In addition, certain quests where there is a need to travel a tunnel full of mobs, it will be extremely boring to do these quests, because with RDF, you will rarely find other players running around doing worldquests, and the result is that you are the only person running this quest and have to kill all these mobs yourself without help before reaching end of the tunnel/mine where quest objective lies (i.e. Felwood Tunnel quest remember?)
The normal world and its quests become irrelevant if RDF is implemented. The present effort required to form groups and to travel to dungeons are essential in a sense that they force players to balance costs-and-benefits when thinking whether to dungeon or worldquest. If you want better loot, you have so spend time and effort to form a group and to travel to dungeon. If you are unable to do that, world questing is your other option. And every MMORPG requires a significant chunk of people to choose the latter, otherwise the world in the game will be not crowded enough and slowly will become totally empty as people leave the game because they are unable to find other random players while questing.
If dungeon were NOT to be the direct better substitute to world quest, then having RDF is fine. If people were running dungeons purely because they prefer that experience to worldquesting, then thats fine. In this case, dungeon loot levels should be reduced to within 1-2 levels of worldquest loot and the existence of RDF would not result in 99% of player base grinding dungeons and ignoring worldquest.
It likely takes too much effort by Blizzard to reduce item levels from Dungeons given that WoW does not make as much profit compared to other games that they have (remember the new phone game they have which have seen people spending thousands on it?). This is why Blizzard is unable to explicitly rationalize this issue like I have in this post because they do not want to explain to the WoW Gamers why they are not willing to spend effort to change the loot structure.
In summary, options become irrelevant if one single option stands out significantly from other options. This only results in lack of choice for consumer (as it means they have to just pick one option over the others due to its clear superiority) and lack of choice for consumers in a game, will eventually kill the game because they would lose interest in the game since there is but one clear path (spam dungeons and ignore worldquesting).
Before flaming me, remember I am supporter of RDF. Its just that I think many other supporters of RDF may have forgotten how bad an influence RDF had on worldquesting and most posters are just focusing on the benefits of RDF (which I agree there are many, especially convenience) and not touching on the impact of worldquesting
The influence it had on world questing was that RDF gave an option to it. Rather than leveling being a solo experience players could actually mix dungeons in reasonably with their leveling experience.
Some people did choose to just spoam dungeons, which is fine, plenty of people also did not. For one thing only tanks and healers could realistically do that and just spamming dungeons also gets boring after awhile, just like solo leveling does. So having the option to mix things up is nice.
I think the argument that ease of access to dungeons makes the world empty is
incorrect. The primary reason zones become empty is that the content becomes irrelevant once a player has out-leveled it, aside from the occasional player farming materials. Coupled with the reduction in amount of XP required to level and the smaller number of people leveling alts, the zones empty quickly only to stay that way. When content is significantly below level cap, there just won’t be that many people populating those areas at any given time. It’s inevitable.
Additionally, the number of people that level exclusively by running dungeons is small in comparison to those who quest. The only people who can effectively dungeon level are tanks and healers, exactly the people you want to be in dungeons more than any other role anyway.
That said, some people really enjoy leveling by running dungeons. Their enjoyment of the game should not be sacrificed for the desire of other players to see people out in the world. Players are not NPCs to create atmosphere for others. If you need help with group quests, ask for help in your guild.
Not adding RDF will be a huge mistake that may only be fully realized once dungeons have died out just like they did in Wrath originally, and once again the devs will understand that you cannot engineer authentic social experiences and at some point, it is entirely up to the player to create those interactions. Forcing people into friction for the sake of behavior modification is only going to foster resentment among a very large number of players.
Some can claim that those who want the dungeon finder are in the minority, but I can safely say that everyone I know wants it in the game. Some are just disappointed at Blizzard’s decision, and others are angry. No doubt some will quit out of frustration or boredom, and some will quit in anger that the game they remember has been fundamentally changed by removing a core feature. And before someone comes along to say dungeon finder is not a core feature, I can assure you that for some, it most definitely is.
Some can claim that the majority of people think the world is flat. It doesn’t mean anything, and it’s obviously not true.
Every single shred of evidence makes it abundantly clear that the majority of players want RDF in Wrath. And not just a slight majority, but a significant majority. And clearly that doesn’t matter to Blizzard. And quite frankly, I don’t think it’s all that important either. I don’t view Classic as ‘let’s just do what’s popular.’ That shouldn’t be the goal of this project. The goal of this project should be authenticity: creating an experience of the game as it was back then. I view that as the entire point of a Classic server.
So it absolutely blows my mind that Blizzard removes an expansion-defining system. It literally was my personal Wrath experience. I played from the start, but by early Wrath…the game had kinda worn out for me. I had leveled so many characters. My schedule wasn’t conducive to raiding, pvp had become a ridiculous cc-fest thanks to homogenization of giving everyone stuns, slows, roots, fears, etc (thanks to arena balancing), so I quit. I came back with 3.3 and the whole game opened up for me. Now leveling I could experience all these amazing dungeons with ease. At max I could run Heroic after Heroic for hours and hours. I’d be out questing and run into someone, whisper them if they want to run some dungeons, often they’d say yes. We’d group, easily queue up, and while we wait chit-chat, quest, explore, etc. It was an amazing social tool.
And Blizz yanks it out of Wrath. So now I see people out in the world…I ignore them. The process to get into a dungeon just isn’t even worth the effort. So I meet less people, I interact with less people. The leveling process is the same boring, dull trip I’ve done a thousand times. Not being broken up with the occasional dungeon to change the routine. Just a single player experience.
I have nothing to look forward to at max level either. My ideal endgame is Heroic dungeons. That’s not going to happen now. People will do their one daily and that’s it. Wrath will be another raid log game. I have no interest in that. And I really don’t understand why Blizz thinks this is good for the game. Because it’s not, and ultimately it’s going to drive a LOT of players away. Because this isn’t Wrath anymore. The entire last year and all the systems that will be in Wrath Classic, all the balance, all the design decisions were based off RDF being in the game. You can’t just remove it and expect the experience not to radically change.
So I won’t be playing it. And I know the trolls will snicker ‘See you in Northrend!!’ No, you won’t. I’m not going to watch this company trash their game for a second time. I’m not going to watch this company ignore their playerbase for a second time. I’m not going to watch this company take the most successful expansion it ever had and toss it in the trash. There’s plenty of other games out there and companies that actually give a damn about their playerbase and want to create a fun and interesting experience.
It changes lots of things. I don’t get why this is a problem. Make the VP reward once per day so people who want it can get the reward and then you can only farm JP otherwise? Why is that an issue?
It gives people who don’t have time to raid a chance to get the gear, and it makes it so people who DO raid and need to stay current don’t have to spam the RDF but still are incentivized to do content they no longer need to do.
which is changing RDF from what it was. People wanted RDF because it was there so fine with me but heroics cant be included because of the rewards. Normal dungeons it would work just fine as is.
That’s… only changing it from the final iteration of it, which makes sense because that content isn’t out yet? I’m so confused, bro. Y’all are wildin’ trying to find any excuse to not just add in RDF.