Yes! I’m a gambling man, let’s see it! Also lets add gnome pit fighting to the mix as well. Always down to see a good scrap!
12/15 last I checked. 
But Naxx isn’t really a gold sink. An ‘ingame currency’ sink is suppose to permanently take money out of the economy.
The AH Fee, Deposit Fee (only for failed auctions), Repair Bills, Mounts, Skill Training, Flight Fee, Buying from Vendors, and I’m probably missing a few others. All those are designed to permanently remove gold from the economy.
Consumables are just redistributing the existing wealth.
The cost I’ve focused in on is 33g 33s 33c (cause meme) for each WB type: Ony, ZG, DMT, Songflower. This would clear, at minimum, 2,720 gold per week; assuming 40 raiders get all of them (I rounded up to 34g) twice a week to do a 2-day, 2hr raid session with no wipes. Couple that with a ‘general’ repair bill running around 15gold as an average (being plate suuuucks). That’s an extra 600 gold on top of that. So roughly 3.3k gold per week is just winked out of existence.
This would also deflate consumable costs a bit too. As you wouldn’t be burning through as many, even on a no-wipe run.
But while you wouldn’t be spending as much on consumes, you would likely be making up for it on buying the WBs from NPCs since it would be faster than trekking all over Azeroth.
Ok… So what’s the point in calling someone out as hypocrite? You’re not helping your case here.
People on any side of an argument are going to have silly points to make that don’t really help their case. But there are what most would consider legitimate arguments against many of the things you mentioned.
Suggesting a change like this is an anti-bot measure. But removing something that’s used by legitimate players should not, in my opinion, be a consideration for anti-boting changes.
I could go on, but the point is there’s a whole lot of nuance beyond just the literal interpretation of “no changes”. If you want to just completely ignore that nuance then I don’t know what to tell you. I guess you just won’t get it.
fixed it for ya
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Good thing for you, you can already do that! Either don’t get them or if by mistake you did get buffed, just click them off!
See how easy that was! Appreciate your valuable feedback to the conversation.
I’m on board with this change. If you still want your #nochanges Classic, don’t participate!
This is such a silly argument.
There are countless variables that go into whether someone likes a game or not, and any individual negative trait could quite easily be outweighed by numerous positive ones.
I don’t like ANY changes, but they are fairly easily outweighed by the substantial enjoyment I derive from the game anyway.
My preference for a more authentic recreation does not necessitate that I be unwilling to pay for something less authentic.
For example, if I like authentic Mexican food, that doesn’t mean I can’t order and enjoy Taco Bell.
That is entirely unnecessary. You don’t understand the batching changes, do you?
When I’m able to do an action is determined by the global cooldown, not batching.
Batching windows are the increments of time in which all actions taken within that window are processed by the server.
The window being 10ms instead of 400ms has absolutely no bearing on when I can actually press the button in the first place.
Maybe so, but that doesn’t change the fact “as it was” is what we were promised.
Hell, it’s STILL on their website:
“WHAT IS WOW® CLASSIC?
Azeroth As It Was”
“World of Warcraft Classic is a faithful recreation of the original World of Warcraft. Combat mechanics, original character models, and skill trees all contribute to a truly authentic experience.”
So regardless of what people want, changes are antithetical to what Classic is, or at the very least are antithetical to what it’s supposed to be.
The API is another change I strongly opposed.
The add-ons you’re describing allowing you to use appropriate rank heals is actually a really ineffective way of healing that ignores HPM, downranking, and pre-casting. Something those add-ons failed to account for, too, was incoming healing from other healers, so it’d use Greater Heal expecting full healing value only to do 99% overhealing.
I’m familiar with such an add-on, and while it definitely makes healing as easy as pressing one button non-stop (literally just make a macro and spam it, it even does targeting for you), a player with even moderate skill could easily way outperform anyone using such an add-on, and have mana left over after a fight.
No, I haven’t accepted them. I still staunchly oppose them.
Those changes are there regardless of how I feel about it.
Nonsense.
“No changes” is an expression of desire.
I want there to be no changes. That doesn’t mean I’m offering an ultimatum where I say I get what I want or I leave.
Yes, exactly. That’s why I’m so strongly opposed to them.
The only concessions I’d be willing to make are to things that don’t actually affect the game; that is to say what we experience as players.
To me, it doesn’t matter how Blizzard stores their data, or how they authenticate logins, or what the launcher looks like, because none of those things are the game.
Things like updated water textures, sending 12 items in the mail at once, etc? Those aren’t necessary… so why were they made?
Easy answer: that’s how they work in the retail client and Blizzard either doesn’t know how (new developers since then) or doesn’t want to (Classic team is really small) change it back to its vanilla state.
I fundamentally disagree with this sentiment, so I’m not sure what else there is to say about this.
If it makes you feel better to say I’ve “accepted” changes, fine. I want the changes undone, so I hardly consider that “accepting” them, but it’d take a great deal to make me quit.
Hell, I didn’t quit retail until Cataclysm, and even then I’d return every other patch to see how the game had progressed. It wasn’t until SHADOWLANDS that I finally stopped returning… and that’s only because Classic was available.
World of Warcraft, at its base, is just that good of a game.
There is a reason.
“World of Warcraft Classic is a faithful recreation of the original World of Warcraft.”
That’s not accurate to the original World of Warcraft, so therefore shouldn’t be done.
Expressing the opinion that we don’t want your change isn’t trolling.
The core issue is that it isn’t accurate to vanilla.
Beyond that, this allows for infinite individual buffing regardless of limited quest items, which decreases the necessity for new players to keep the game functioning and makes dungeon groups even rarer.
The lack of coordination required diminishes the social aspect, making it feel less like an MMO and more like a single-player game you sometimes play at the same time as other people.
Nah, in your analogy, the sorts of changes you listed would be more akin to seriously altering the piece being displayed rather than changing the display itself.
Ignoring the fact that a museum is sort of a poor analogy in the first place due to the fact we are actively playing the game and not just viewing it, you are changing it from its original state.
This is more than just cleaning the dirt off a bone for a museum display. The bone is the piece meant to be displayed; the dirt is not part of it. Cleaning the dirt off makes sense.
However, carving into the bone, sticking a feather on it, and drawing a smiley face on it with a sharpie is extremely disrespectful, and defeats the purpose of displaying it.
Where do you buy consumables, because the AH fee applies to consumables sold there, and vials are bought from vendors.
Granted, this doesn’t even come close to exceeding the gold earnings from playing the game, but… it isn’t meant to.
The economy is designed to inflate over time. It’s sort of an inevitability of an MMO, where resources are infinitely respawning and the currency is generated by killing mobs and selling drops that are fabricated from nothing.
Gold sinks are good, but that’s a consideration for retail or a new MMO, not for Classic.
What a stupid idea.
That’s not how it works.
Not participating doesn’t mean the change didn’t happen.
We don’t want the change in the first place. Regardless of whether we would use it or not is irrelevant to that desire.
Not sure what you’re responding to.
Given the context, I’m pretty sure “we” refers to people who share my point of view. It is the appropriate word to use.
Bold of you to assume that you represent the majority. You must not play on a server that gets grieved 24/7 by dispellers (a PvP server kek).
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I’m really looking forward to TBC’s launch and people moving there. Once we’re rid of the tourists who don’t actually like or want Classic, I think the experience will be MUCH better.
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Oh of course! Why didn’t I think of that!? If I pretend it didn’t change then it’s the same as it not actually changing. It’s just like when I cover my eyes and nobody can see me.
I would just remove WBs at that point.
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I never said anything of the sort. Try again, pup.
You can see what realm I’m on.
It’s Herod, one of the largest realms in Classic, and a PvP realm. It’s dominated by Horde, about 35:65 A:H, by the way.
I’m just not an idiot, and I know how to avoid getting purged.
It would cost gold, so unlimited isn’t 100% true. A player would still need to acquire the gold to use this service, which leads to people being online more and introducing more social interactions.
Someone leveling a character for just buffs isn’t likely to do dungeon content, they will just get boosted. Outside of LBRS/UBRS and the world dragons you need to kill for Onyxia attunement, I don’t really see more social interaction besides someone AFK in a dungeon being boosted. Once they have Rend/Ony, they will then sell them and most likely become raid loggers themselves.
90% of the buff coordination on my server doesn’t even occur in-game, it’s on discord. The social aspect consists of “WTS XYZ BUFF 250G” with a buyer or group of buyers responding and setting a time. Then the people compalining they missed and everyone calling each other every name under the sun.
Everyone logs in when buff is about to go off and boom, everyone is raid logged.
I’m willing to bet this is the same experience on your server and you know it. Not making this change will just lead to more expensive buffs and more expensive summons to ZG island or wherever to get the buffs.
Are you a summoner or booster? I question this now based on this response and failure of you to acknowledge and understand how the current state of leveling and social interaction is in this game. Most people are raid-loggers where the social aspect is in Discord more than anything. I’m in a tight-knit guild with a lot of social interaction, but again, there are still raid loggers. Not shaming anyone who is, I’m just stating that maybe if the buffs were available on-demand, we might actually see these people using their mains in-game and doing things besides looking for the next round of buffs. Parsing is a thing that people enjoy, getting the buffs is not fun, but people do it because they want to be able to compete with parsing. I still don’t see why introducing this NPC would be an overwhelming bad thing for the community as a whole.
Where did we land on the Chocobo Race betting?
We are all in agreement that we need it.
All I saw was “nochange” and “go back to retail”. It’s like they didn’t understand the current implementation of Vanilla wasn’t ‘vanilla-like’.
What’s being suggested to be removed?
Is it? You could opt to not play Blizzard’s take on Vanilla. And you’d have all the original issues with the original client, original server coding, your ‘nochange’.
Actions are sent to the server and handled in batches. Likely, from what I’ve seen, first in, first out (we had a tank “die” on Loatheb, but come back with ~90% HP and all their buffs). It’s more about trying to mimic the ‘responsiveness’ of the game. It’s the best I could do since you can’t tell the server to “hold my actions a sec”.
Was never possible. And no, I don’t think they should have worded it like that. Implying and then not coming through is wrong. It doesn’t matter if I think it’s still “close enough”.
Pretty sure SmartHeal can do the guessing with pretty decent accuracy. I used it for soloing and it did seem to be able to guess, based on HP lose, which spell rank to use. It was still like a rank behind what should have been used. Basically, it felt like it always would cast the “ya, I’d cast that rank too” ranks.
Personally, I’m glad I don’t need: /script if not ma then for i = 1,72 do if IsAttackAction(i) then ma = i; end; end; end; if ma then if not IsCurrentAction(ma) then UseAction(ma); end; else AttackTarget(“target”);end;
just so I can auto attack and not have it stop after about 5 seconds and I just stand there while a mob beats me to death.
I don’t pay for things I, as you put it, staunchly oppose. It’s why I quit in MoP.
Also probably has to do with being more database efficient. If it was made how I would have made it (based on how it worked), each mail would be an database entry with an index key leading to the coinciding key that was the item. Nowadays, I would do a single database entry and then have 12 id columns to hold the index keys of the items. So, 12 mail indexes with 12 item indexes. Or 1 mail index with 12 item indexes; all leading to the same character id.
Pretty sure that’s directed at me.
Why do you think Boosting is so popular even this late into the cycle. Boost to 60 in about a week, run Ony for head. Turn in next week; delete character, repeat.
The only one we’re having an issue with is the heart. But that’s because it takes a long time to get to Hakkar as opposed to the ~10 minutes to get to, and kill, Ony.
So…like the replicas they typically have on display, while having the original locked away in a vault?
I’m speaking of the consumables, themselves; separate from the fees, which I already listed. If I buy a Mongoose for 10g. That 10g didn’t just disappear. Most of it will be transferred to the character that posted the elixir.
Tell me, did most players have epic mounts on all their lvl 60s by the time Naxx rolled out, plus enough to buy epic flying ‘day 1’ of TBC (yes I know TBC wasn’t announced). But I do remember people scoffing at the cost of flying because it was so much. Did CTS regularly go for 15k in Vanilla GDKPs?
A [serious] gold sink is desperately needed in Classic. Specifically because it was a faithful recreation of Vanilla’s content. We knew exactly when to hoard Elemental Water, Essence of Undeath (with plenty of Alchemist alts), Essence of Water, Essence of Fire, Elemental Earth, Arcanite Crystals, etc.
That knowledge allowed most to earn wealth far beyond what was normal for the time that this version of the game replicates.
10,000 GIL on Crimson; totally not my birb. >_>
Well you didn’t pay very close attention then or you haven’t been paying attention long enough. Arguments for changes have been beaten to death over and over and I’d imagine many of those opposed have given up on going into details because people either don’t listen or someone new comes along with their “new idea” and spouts off the same Tauren 
that has already been rejected a hundred times before.
Well probably the thing that is within the context of the post you’re quoting. You referenced a change to remove the ability for eagle eye to see herb nodes on the mini map.
Unlimited insofar as one person is only otherwise able to turn in the quest once. This NPC would allow you to repeatedly acquire the buff for yourself without the completion of the quest from others.
Not really. Gold farming is done solo. The closest you come to social interactions is putting stuff on the auction house or trading people, but they’re already doing that for consumes in raids.
Someone doing it JUST for buffs, maybe, but how common is that, really? I’m talking about people leveling alts, doing the raid, and using their quest turn ins for buffing others.
Also, to be a bit pedantic… boosting is done in dungeon groups.
So outside of dungeons, people don’t do dungeons. Sort of a self-defeating argument, don’t you think?
Let’s not forget the need to actually find another raid group to kill Onyxia, too.
And? Most of my communication with my guildmates is done on Discord. Does that mean I don’t communicate with my guild?
As opposed to… not existing at all, and still raid logging to keep buffs for their raid.
I haven’t failed to acknowledge or understand it, at all.
And your change doesn’t solve that, at all.
As has been explained already by someone else, the NPC can be reset and a buff can be provided effectively at any time. People are raid logging because they are wanting to maximize their buff durations in raids, which is going to happen anyway because people are getting buffed days in advance of the raid.
Even if they buff the day of the raid, they still have to get all the world buffs, not just Dragonslayer, and there’s no guarantee they would be playing the game leading up to that point.
I sincerely doubt it.
People raid log because they’re not interested in the game beyond raiding. I guarantee you the vast majority of people who raid log now would continue to do so even if world buffs didn’t exist. There are always going to be people who log in for raid, then log out until next week.
Yes, it is, for the reasons I explained.
Each type of action has a sort of priority, damage taken and death coming before heals, which is why people complain about their targets dying despite their heal going off and mana being consumed.
The order in which the activity occurs within the window is irrelevant, which is the entire point of the window. They’re ALL processed at the exact same time: the end of that window.
Still not sure what you hope to accomplish with a weakaura, though.
I don’t think it’s feasible to accurately measure 400ms increments and delay key presses to those increments.
And as I already explained, I can not like a change and still make use of it. If I don’t like that Blizzard took away the ability to MC people out of BGs, that doesn’t mean I’m going to stop playing BGs.
What I enjoy about the game as a whole and every aspect of the game is multivaried. “It’s literally perfect or I don’t play” is the most retarded mindset one could possibly have, so I have no idea why you expect anyone to adopt it, even if someone wants no changes and “perfection” in that context is easy to achieve.
Incorrect. It is still possible now.
Blizzard simply refusing to actually provide what they promised us does not make it impossible.
Unless you’d care to explain in detail why this isn’t possible?
You aren’t paying for individual changes, though. That seems to be what you’re not understanding.
I’m not paying for Blizzard to break AV premades. I’m not paying for Blizzard to add layering.
I’m paying for a subscription to WoW Classic. That includes those things I don’t like, but it doesn’t consistent entirely of them.
Rerolls for TBC.
Boredom of playing the same class for over a year.
Retention issues leading to diminished rosters and differing class needs.
No, not at all like that.
Those are replicas. They are meant to replicate the original, not alter it.
What I’m talking about is taking the original (or if you consider WoW Classic to be a replica, then taking a replica) and changing it into something different.
A replica will look like the original. What Blizzard did to Classic is akin to making the replica no longer resemble the original.
I’m aware of how it works, but you mention the broker fees, so unless you’re trading directly, buying/selling consumables does function as a gold sink.
Just a hunch, but I think most people buy their consumables off the auction house.
Yes, most people had their epic mounts. I couldn’t purport to know how many people had enough gold for epic flying, but I wager that was because people didn’t know it was coming and didn’t bother to farm gold for an expense they had no clue was coming.
Now days, there’s a number of people, probably a substantial minority, who have exorbitant amounts of gold because they swipe their credit cards or play a lot. The rest probably can’t afford epic flying now, but could manage it fairly early into TBC due to increased gold generation and a tangible goal to work towards rather than a nebulous concept of “having enough gold.”
However, that doesn’t really matter because that’s not a change to the game, that’s a difference in the player base. People have more knowledge and forethought now than they did back then.
Who cares?
The real concern is how much that was worth, relatively. Does it matter if the number is 15k instead of 1k if that is relatively the same amount of wealth?
I disagree. I think there is a desperate need to punish the people illegitimately farming gold.
The gold sinks are substantial enough because most legitimate players aren’t farming gold 24/7. The cost of goods increases so significantly because of illegitimate players pumping gold into the economy non-stop.
That doesn’t get solved with a gold sink, though.
People would still have all of those goods stored up for the consumables they use, regardless of whatever arbitrary number of yellow coins those consumables cost.