i just think that both can “peacefully” co-exist in the same faction.
like, we do have rogues, like shaw says it gets the job done no matter what.
so why we don’t see a little more of that morally gray while the other “good guys” react and deal with this things?
it could be perfect for everyone.
I also wasn’t cramming the Horde into the villain box, cripes. That is something I’ve expressly argued against. I’m speaking strictly in terms of the Alliance player’s experience, and stating the obvious- it is generally a heroic one, and there is nothing wrong with that.
That statement has nothing directly to do with the faction conflict. Nor should it be implied that’s what I was intending to say. My posts in this thread can literally be boiled down to:
“TLDR: Hey OP, you do you, nothing wrong with wanting to play a good guy.”
Don’t worry OP, as long as the Alliance is dancing around in Stormwind colors you’ll always be the good guys in the way the humans think makes you the good guy and none of the lesser races can taint that.
If Lena’s crusade against humanity couldn’t change anything for the Alliance, then nothing can.
As I’ve mentioned elsewhere the only time I felt unambiguously heroic in the war campaign was chasing off Alliance who were going full Empire on Endor at the Vulperans. Because the desert caravan traders had the audacity to trade with people. You rescued plush toy people from Alliance trying to immolate them and their livelihood.
But this again isn’t seen by the Alliance. In their quest it’s fear totems. Likewise outside Teldrassil as a Horde you don’t see anything all that fed up unless you’re playing a breather who thinks improving human life expectancy is weird. Certainly not the San’Layn or that incident in Stormsong were the Horde seemed interchangeable with Quilboar.
With the final villain being N’Zoth this all makes a lot of sense. An unleashed Old God capable of ensnaring senses and bending minds could totally account for these wildly different perception of events. But instead no the Horde was just evil because SL prologue. And I tell ya that expansion better be a landmark title for how much they sacrificed for it.
Which is quite shocking considering that the races that are directly responsible get forgiven and all precautions are taken to make sure their “civilians” are not caught in the crossfire.
But then again maybe the Alliance was trying to help the Horde by destroying the UwU menace.
trade with known genociders waging a war of death against the alliance.
Less forgiven and more a ceasefire that’ll go on forever because as N’Zoth shows the Horde and Alliance don’t really have the luxury of all out war.
Not when Azeroth’s the apple of every cosmic monstrosities eye’s desire. Or more to the point;
Well when you are willing to torch random foxes for daring to trade with the Horde but concerned about Zandalari civilians in an assault on their capital seems absolutely bizarre.
I wanted that whole city reduced to smoke and ashe but apparently thats for fox people only.
Bingo. The foxes are the cutest little morally bankrupt arms dealers you will ever meet. The real ones that are currently selling weapons to most of our planet’s dictators wish they had their kind of PR.
Bringing up the vulpera is weird… the Alliance side has you scaring them away and burning the stuff they were transporting, not actually killing them. In the original version, yes, the Alliance were actually killing them, but that was scrapped pretty quickly.
The Vulpera, like a lot of the Horde allied races, don’t really make a lot of sense in terms of joining up. Much like how Void Elves are a travesty of logic and lore as an allied race…
Tolkien even grappled with this. In a series of published (and unpublished) letters, he talks at length about it. Basically waffling between the idea that there were undoubtedly non-evil and redeemable orcs, he just didn’t show them and “you’re taking this fantasy tale too seriously,” and all places in between.
Christ I’m glad he passed before he could see, well, everything.
He even said dragons were redeemable, or so I recall.
Out of all the unforgivable evil things the Horde has done in BfA and prior, I didn’t expect giving people the choice to live again or go back to the grave would rank such a high position. 
not deleting the shameful blue warchief title that exists solely to simply the alliance into a monolithic entity and goes against the original theme of the alliance being an alliance of equals.
Disappointment.
Regarding Human Paladin, I’ll only say this.
In the words of the great master…
(Error): Unit Exacitor does not recall stating those words.
(Analysis): Poster did not directly quote, but is noting their preferred change was not noted.
(Statement): Removing the High King position would ultimately be fruitless without carrying through on it by the necessary developments to show each member-state of the Alliance as it’s own unique entity. Although its removal would be welcome, it is also, to an extent, superfluous, as unit Exacitor would rather see nations defy the High King to prove it is, and always was, a poor concept.
That look on Saurmans face lmao. Reminds me I always put this on in Isle of Conquest when I’m driving the Siege Engine or Demolisher:
Yeah the Horde should be an alternative hero faction imo, an endearing underdog. I’d probably play Doomhammers Horde tho still if that was in the game, cause it’s friggin Doomhammer. Doom. Hammer.
You look like Nickle back
I’d probably play Doomhammer’s Horde too. Twisted into a war engine by demons and left with the choices of dying on a dying world or taking war to another to save your people makes for a really compelling twist on a villain faction. It is sympathetic enough to hit that “the ends justify the means” style of evil which makes engaging in evil acts easier to justify for the purposes of the make-believe war.
Plus they had the coolest iteration of Warcraft death knights. And, of course, vengeance for Zul’jin.
The problem is I didn’t sign up for the Old Horde and none of my characters were made with that set up in mind. It is a lot easier to play the villain when you know that is your role from the start.