I had to finally switch back to ret just to get into heroics. On benediction there are a looooot of tanks and even healers.
Bulletin board is spammed at all hours with LFM DPS
oh wow.
bless dual spec
Going to guess even less tanks around, or nothing changing at all. Players are meta chasers and that means only two viable tanks, Paladins and DKs. That’s only 1/2 of the roster. No one will want Warrior or Druid tanks. The only saving grace is a lot of people want to play DK, and so many may reroll DK. Course many may roll Paladins too since they’re the true heroic class of the expansion with several viable/broken specs.
It’s less about people being meta chasers in this case.
As 5 mana warrior tanks are meta they are your best 5 man tanks, so any dps warrior should tank but they won’t. But come raids there not as good.
The issue is always the fact there is a set amount of tank raid spots and always the least amount vs any role. Wrath makes this worse in tbc you have 3 tanks in most raids at least 2 true and one suto tank. In wrath there is never a time you need three the few fights a third is usefull for just needs a plate dps. This means tank raid spots are cut by 50 percent. This is a massive cut to the total tanks needed and as such LOWERS not raises the likly hood of tanks being there.
While yes duel spec allows dps to tank eaiser and this offsets the issue a bit players that don’t want to tank don’t this has already been proven. So while you may see a bit more tanks in wrath you will also see the avg tank is worse as there is less players that are “main” tanks are more that are offset tanks that want faster groups. Wrath those ease of heroics makes dps tanking far more common via eg a dk just tanking in dps spec as it works well.
10 man raids also do the same 10 man raids in tbc you want 1 tank for with a dps in tanky gear at least. Wrath even thou they added more 10 man raids you still only need one tank the 2nd is not needed often and a dps in tanky gear is all you need if even needing the tanky gear. This is a cut of 50 percent vs retail for example where 10 mans atill basicly need 2 tanks as a rule.
Wrath is the worst xpac for tank requirements making true tanks not often needed so less are found but easier to multi spec into one so pros and cons.
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OP, retail has 6 different tank classes and there’s still a tank shortage
no, there will never ever be “too many” tanks.
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Very true and agree 100% with what you said, but would still add that players do chase metas hard which will make a bad situations even worse. Any tank that isn’t a paladin or DK is going to get chewed out, it is going to happen. People will easily be able to handle a prot paladin and DK for heroics if it means no Druid or Warrior tanks in raid. It is even already happening now in BC with warrior tanks being excommunicated from tanking in raids, and paladin tanks being sought the most for heroics, and 10 mans for aoe speed clears.
Between dual spec and the design intents behind the new LFD tool, it sounds like groups are going to have a lot of options. Sounds like a win to me 
The new lfd tool is worse than the bulletin board addon and in fact people are finding it better to list in the lfd tool than not use it open the addon to watch for groups as you have to be listed to see /4.
This means there is tons of false listings in the lfd tool just to see /4 and people just make groups via /4 and the addon we already have that dose a better job than there new tool.
If they wanted to add a tool should of added retails lfm tool not a new half measure that dose the job worse than the current way.
There tool dosent even do the one thing blizzard made it for getting people to talk more than lfg and current. The tool in fact makes less communication than now which is impressive that they managed to do worse than doing nothing in regard to that goal. As now people can toss random invites to those listed to get the first body’s not saying a word before spamming /4 reducing communication needed to form groups.
As for duel spec it’s been proven via the first time wrath came out and all the way to retail it dosent help with the tank issue. As people that don’t want to tank still won’t tank. You see it so often people that can tank even on retail via the exact same gear as retail gear for dps is tank gear and specs being free and easy to swap yet people dont even tank non mythic instances that are easy and spam for a long time to get a tank.
Yes, they should have, but if there’s gaps in the functionality to what they added, please communicate that to Blizzard. This isn’t about whether or not LFD is good, it’s about the fact that I can easily identify what groups need.
I’m not sure what your proof is, but you’ve boiled things down to either those who want to tank, and those who can’t. This excludes another category, those who would tank, but can’t because that’s not the spec they are. That’s probably more significant than you realize.
On retail I main a resto druid. However, I don’t mind tanking at all, so when I either can’t find a group as a healer or just don’t feel like waiting, I just swap my spec and boom, away I go. Easy!
Where it ties into this thread though is that if there are no groups who need tanks, I can just swap over to DPS (or heals) and fill thsoe spots instead.
There is no such thing as “too many tanks” when dual spec exists.
We don’t know yet, there are only two things we can answer definitely about future content.
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People will be unhappy about something in the upcoming content patch.
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Yes, the hunter in your group will want to roll on that item too.
No, a lot of people who roll the class that can tank won’t tank same with healers. Less common but it happens.
The flaws in the lfg system have been communicated to blizzard for quite awhile now read since the first day of the beta. Guess how many changes have happened to it so far in beta (none). While yes may be a low prio vs other bugs the lack of change is significant as it shows the function is a low prio function to blizzard. As it stands its not useable. It at the level where the function not being added and the current system being left alone would be more effective. Even something as simple as having /4 accessable without being listed in the lfg tool which has been pointed out as a flaw since day 1 has not been changed and that would be dirt simple to do. This results in fake listing jsut to see /4 and already with the small pop on beta the worthlessness of the filters of the tool already stand out furthermore once we hit live pop levels. With no way to sort by ilvl or really any factor other than role while you cant easily see class or filter by it. This makes looking for a set class or gear level near impossible and yes this is a large factor as short of a que system people will pick and choose. These massive limitations make it so people use the bulletin board addon even on beta with the tool as the tool is worthless for what it is for (allowing you to see who is looking for more or for a group and pick who to invite). All of this has been communicated since day 1 on the fourms on readit as well as via streamer vids so none of these points are new yet no changes made to date.
As for my proof it is exactly where I said it was open the game and look. Not once in the history of wow has there been a time where tanks where not in demand. No matter how easy respecing was made or how many tank classes was added. In fact wrath was when we seen some of the record high dps ques that screens exist showing over 2 hours for. As those that wanted to tank had no reason to que past dailly and they could sell the other slots easy for extra profit (to the point “tank ques” where even sold dailly). Call to arms was in fact added for EXACTLY this reason.
As for the subset of players that would tank but cant due to spec no I dint exclude this cat. As all 5 mans the topic of discussion at the heroic level excluding the ICC 3 that are not there on launch can be tanked in DPS spec. This goes for ret/arms/fury/feral/unholy/frost all the dps specs of every tank class. This is without even needing extra gear. Heroics in wrath are tuned at a redic low level. If someone wanted to tank being not in the correct spec would not even remotely prevent them. So no duel spec dose not increase the amount of tanks in any significant way. The mindset of the players is what matters and those that would tank already do with or without duel spec. While the new lfg system is doing nothing to increase access to them.
So no it doesn’t sounds like we are going to have options as per your org statements or dose it sound like a win. If anything due to no LFG que tool the classes that are not “meta” will once again have a vary hard uphill battle to even get groups as none of the dps that can tank are not meta so they get group anyways. But those that cant tank and not meta there is no reason to take. So in fact the changes being named are more likely to make it more difficult to get into groups for the avg player vs wrath with the lfg que tool.
You kind of answered your own issue here. Give it time. Relevant to this thread though, whatever else it doesn’t do, what it will do is tell you which groups need which roles.
If you see a lot of groups listed all missing DPS, you can switch to your DPS spec and join up. If you see a lot of groups all missing tanks, you can switch to your tank spec and join up.
Easy!
It’s not a black or white situation. Just because there’s still demand for tank doesn’t mean dual spec hasn’t significantly mitigated the situation. Consider that charging groups for runs is something crazy prevalent in Classic WoW. I’ve waited over an hour for a tank for a group in WoW Classic because I don’t want to pay. In retail, I’ve waited maybe 10 minutes to find a tank for any given group?
Just because you don’t wan to to utilize your tank spec doesn’t mean others won’t. I certainly plan to play both Tank and DPS in WotLK.
The difference in tanking in tbc and wotlk might as well be night and day. Warrior tanks aren’t that bad for single target fights but they have such crappy aoe threat and trash in any raid gets up to 5 mobs will mean a warrior ends up with 1 target and a paladin has 4+.
In wotlk warrior aoe threat is pretty on par with nearly any other tank. Warriors will likely become meta once speed clearing is the goal because warrior tanks DPS is like that of another DPS more then a tank.
The system dosen’t show you what the group is missing. The tool makes no distinction between group leaders looking for more and players looking for groups.
They are all listed on the same page and while it shows what roles are within a given group they are lost within everything else there.
You wont see alot of groups missing X as its hard to even see the groups themselves. You see tons of players listed not knowing who is leading a group and who is just listing. As even groups of multi players show up the same as players looking for groups.
While if you request a invite the tool dose NOT show the role you are requesting to join as. You have to Pm the group leader to pass that info on which in that time the group leader would of just posted in LFG and found people with more ease via the current tool. While more effectively showing exactly the info you mentioned what each group is looking for. You could of even just typed /4 tank/dps LFG X without even looking at tool to find a group faster and easier after listing as you need to list to use /4. Adding to the many fake listing and further making it hard to see real groups.
The tool has improved on quite literally nothing vs the current system and has made quite a few elements WORSE.
We have given it time to improve to no end. Even the simple changes suggested that could be done in no time at all have not been changed or addressed. With raid testing started this shows blizzards has moved to the tuning part of beta and as such as per there normal development order as blizzard themselves have mentioned they are past the functionality step. As blizzard first aims for function than addresses tuning within a given patches testing cycle, this is as per blizzard themselves. They have started raid tuning via adjustments to mob health values. As such the odds for significant changes to happen to the tool at this point is slim.
As for demand not showing due spec hasn’t mitigated the situation, no it doesn’t and my post directly addressed that. Wrath had as mentioned record high ques reaching over 2 hours, no other xpac ever has had that (that I can find record of). Retails 10 min ques are largely a result of CALL TO ARMS not duel specs, that got tanks to que.
Duel spec did not get people to que as tank as those wanting to tank already did so. In fact wrath was the time dps tanks was the most prevalent due to ease of heroics. Yet so many players that litterly would of just needed to hit tank stance in dps spec same exact gear still did not tank. Duel specs has next to no inpact on the amount of tanks out there. Call to arms dose as you reward those for tanking. Retail why you have 10 min ques is since when ques are long tanks get rewards for queing and many players run the WA that alerts when Call to arms is up for quick easy gold.
plenty of tanks at the start, but once they get their pre bis, less, and even less cause most tanks dont want to deal with dps being dumb, and annoying in the dungeon… at least thats how i see it
Same story every expansion as long as I can remember. Everyone THINKS they want to be a tank. Be a tank they say. Its fun they say. LMAO. They lied. Most little tanklets will go back to dps by a month into Wrath. This happens almost every xpac and I always think maybe it’s time to hang up the shield. Maybe there are just too many of us now. Being a pally tank is not hard but it’s not for everyone. You may fail and when you do you can’t just get carried thru. DPS will not listen unless you know how to make them. As a tank no matter what happens in the raid…if it fails that is put on you. You have to have big shoulders and not everyone does.
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It does. At least in the preview it does… if it’s not doing this on the current Beta iteration that sounds like a bug that absolutely should be addressed before release. From what I can see here any role should have an easy time seeing what groups need.
Probably not. Retail works the same way and nobody lists as a solo looking for a group. You either join an existing group, or start a new one. That’s it. It’ll take a bit for people to adapt, but I suspect they’ll figure it out soon enough.
There’s no call to arms for M+. I think you’ve worked yourself up to believing that dual spec doesn’t matter, but it actually helps a ton. You can continue to worry if you want to, I won’t get in your way, but you’ll see
There are never “too many tanks”. Only problem with tankng are raid spots since thwy are very limited, tbc was a clear example where many prot paladins had to respec holy to raid.
But for heroics tanks will be a shortage.
Personally im going Ret for WOTLK
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