God I hope so the Horde hasnt been evil ever.
I’m giving the facts as I see them. I accept the Draenei were responsible in part. But their actions were made by the reality of the situation.
Well The Chronicle specifically puts the settlement in the light ‘he knew his people would never have a chance to resist the Legion with force until they found a world to settle.’ So yes, I’m following the lore in that respect.
I’d rather try to save the universe risking a planet (or even planets) than accepting doom.
You’d rather the Draenei accept their death and the death of the universe.
The Legions eventually defeat was the culmination of a lot of moving parts. But it includes Draenor, the Orcs, the Draenei, Illidan, so on. We probably don’t have the events of Legion if the Draenei just go ‘I guess we’ll just die!’
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So, by your own arguments then … since it was inevitable, the Orcs attempting to eradicate the Draenei was also “responsible in part”, but ultimately should be wiped away as well? They were just tools after all. Kil Jaeden had already found the Dreanei, which why he took an interest in the Orcs as puppets. The Draenei were in no way prepared to fight off simple fel-orcs, let alone the Legion … and their attack did eventually force the Orcs and Dreanei to got to Azeroth to eventually get allies strong enough to challenge the Legion.
Essentially, if the ends justify the means here … then the Orcs should have their hands just as cleanly washed as the Draenei. Right? Or is that sort of “ends justify the means” cherry picking a luxury only something Alliance races should expect?
Just use the annoying Goblins own arguements against her. She really has no counter for them.
If the Dreanei are Guilty then so are the Orcs for ruining there OWN WORLD then coming to do the same to Azeroth.
I agree lets ship both races off to outland to die slowly, round up there Mag’Har, and lightborn counterparts too just for good measure.
Also we need to imprison every elf and troll regardless of faction since they caused the Sundering and alerted the Legion to Azeroth during the war of ancients, which lead to the Sundering.
You’re confused about my comments regarding inevitability. Inevitability itself isn’t what make makes something ok, it is just an extenuating circumstance in the decision.
Take an average human man. Inevitable they will die. Does that make it ok to just kill them? No.
Say (random hypothetical) inevitably the world will be destroyed. But killing twenty people will stop this. Does that make it ok to kill them? Arguably, sure, depending on your moral system.
Just because something is inevitable, that just gives weight to an option. It isn’t ‘this is inevitable, therefor anything related to it is ok’.
It isn’t cherry picking, the issue is that you’ve put forth two very radically different ends.
The ends for the Draenei settling was fighting the Legion.
The ends for the Orcs attacking the Draenei was they were incorrectly scared of the Draenei.
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Right, I’m fine with that argument. I’m not fine with completely whitewashing the hands of one, and not doing it with the other, because of some “predestination BS” argument that’s only being applied to the first and not the second. Either they’re both are accountable for their actions and the blood on their hands, or neither of them are. Either both the destruction of Draenor (and thus the orcs) AND the genocide of the Draenei thru the Orcs by Kil’Jaeden were inevitable, or neither of those events were. A little consistency, that’s all I expect.
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Ah yes the alliance supremacist has arrived. took you looong enough.
A dying breed more rare than the Night elf lena posters.
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You are demanding consistency in situations that are not the same.
It’d be like asking someone to treat a serial murderer and an average Joe the same because ‘they’re both human, you aren’t being consistent’.
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Hell even the Scourge is the Hordes Fault!
It was ultimately led by an Orc before that Orc Merged with Arthas.
So we have alot of willing Genocide we can lay at the Orcs feet.
Most destructive race in the setting.
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The orcs were tricked by Kil Jaeden and his minion Gul Dan into believing that the Blood Plague that was ravishing their people was the fault of the Draenei; and KJ did this by exploiting and weaponizing the Orcish people’s own faith against them. KJ also only took notice of the Orcs because the Draenei drew his attention to Draenor, and by the time Ner’zhul realized his mistake (that the image of his own dead wife was used against him) it was too late. Also, strangely, the Fel actually did give the Orcs the constitution to survive the plague that Gul Dan and KJ unleashed upon them; though it also enslaved them. What the Eredar’s excuse for the majority of their Naaru Trust-Fund kid species going evil? Ahh … right … they got board with eternal paradise.
So, yah know … nuance.
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Where they though?
They willingly learned Fel-Magic which CLEARLY and OBVIOUSLY was slowly destroying there planet, and kept abusing WELL after winning thier war with the Dreanei.
And then we have the Orc Menace birthing the Scourge too with Ner’Zhul.
The Orcs are a dangerous threat! We need to kill them all including and especially any women of breeding age, and children.
Dont worry fojar I am pretty sure you will get your Lordaeron lamp posts eventually.
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Well then. 
Edit: Wait, you wouldn’t happen to be Fojar from Something Awful, would you?
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RP forums are that way ---->
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Also by your Logic then the Horde is at the end of the day respondsible for the Death of Varian Wrynn and the reason the war with the Legion during Legion got dragged out.
Clearly they should have fought to the bitter end so that the Alliance could end the Threat.
The Horde’s sacrifice would have Allowed the alliance to decapitate the invasion before it even really began.
Varian was given just as much time to retreat as the Horde was, and considering that all star lineup of named Demons in is way … the Alliance were fooling themselves into thinking they could have gotten to Gul’dan before the Horde fell. This wasn’t the Horde just bailing without notice, Sylvie sounded the retreat the moment she realized the battle was lost. The Alliance also knew full well ahead of time what they were getting into on the Broken Shore, unlike the Orcs on Dreanor who were deliberately kept in the dark to what was coming.
She did have a better vantage point on the battlefield than the Alliance did in that chasm, and hey … if the Horde and Alliance died (which they would have) then there would be no do-overs like we had and the world would have burned. Technically, Sylvie saved Alliance lives, she didn’t kill Varian.
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And your counterpoint to the Fact that the Horde is the Reason the Scourge even existed?
They were led by an Orc after all.
Come on. The Orcs are literally the worst possible race in the setting.
Droite Please stop responding to him he makes ereviens arguments look non-trollish.
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Fair enough lol!