They have no reason for that specific attack, beyond past grudges. They attempted to attack the brand new leader of the Horde after the recent died on the broken shore for a perceived “betrayal”; when she was not Warchief at the time and we held a very public funeral with even an Alliance member secretly in attendance. They attempted to kneecap the Horde during a full fledged Legion invasion, and got away with it with no consequences. If anyone “betrayed the peace” in the last two expansion, it was the Alliance.
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The Alliance voted to wipe out the Orcs after the Second War.
Dealin tried to exterminate the Horde (man, woman, and child) in Warcraft 3.
Garithos wanted to execute a large number of the remaining Blood Elves alongside their leaderafter 90% had already been wiped out.
Jaina tried to wipe out Orgrimmar, man, woman, and child.
We have Alliance officers that kick Orcs blind for fun.
We have Trolls being used as target practice by Kul Tirans.
I don’t see what’s too out of character.
Agree to disagree. I think the bombings are pretty poorly regarded these days from what I read.
Well I don’t think it is acceptable, to be clear. He shouldn’t be leader afterwards.
Yes there is. You imprison or kill them until you feel like it isn’t necessary anymore.
You know, exactly what was done with the Sunreavers.
I mean, I think it is a bad option. But that’s what you’re supporting. Ultimately the Sunreavers were citizens of Dalaran too.
I think a structured investigation with the weight of all of Dalaran behind it makes that a rather small risk. Jaina disabled Aethas easily. The Sunreavers wouldn’t have much ability with her and everyone else against them.
I believe the number in-game is 33. You kill 16 Sunreaver Agents in their area. 12 Sunreavers in the sewers. 4 shopkeepers. 1 person fleeing at the bank. And this is without accounting game scale and strictly the quest numbers of what we see.
Yes.
That’s the risk involved in letting people have rights.
Should we search this person’s house without a warrant?
Should we torture them for information?
Should we tap their calls without a warrant?
There’s always a risk of criminals doing something by following due process. But for rights to mean anything, we can’t just throw it out whenever we want.
Instead of just starting to forcefully capture and kill, I think they easily could have used those resources to do so. Again, weighing the innocents against the risk seems clear to me.
What? I don’t see a good reason to believe that. They all have a vested interest in supporting her investigation. It’d be silly to think they’d be less likely to support a reasoned investigation than just capture/kill methods.
She calls it ‘a simple spell’. It seems clear it was readily available.
It is a city of mages. Again, a simple spell.
Because then they aren’t in the city and you’ve protected the innocent parties. Dalaran wasn’t at war with the Horde at that time. You’ve succeeded if the guilty parties aren’t a threat inside Dalaran.
Questionable they’d prosecute it that way. I’m not even sure anyone has been tried for treason in like seventy years in the United States.
Just goes back to what I said.
[quote=“Irenaus-wyrmrest-accord, post:114, topic:673270”]
No, when a game is made either the designer or players can pick a win condition together. It isn’t up to you to decide what their goal was in posting. [/quote]
You’re positing situations wherein the game is either designed with a set of rules (normal chess) of both players are agreeing to a set of rules/win conditions.
The discussion in question had neither such aspects.
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ähm, needet it new…reasons? You have never said anything like that.
The sad thing is, we literally see her easily freeze Aethas.
And polymorph is a spell that exists in Warcraft.
Yet for some reason, killing is on the table.
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She could have easily excused her actions in Stormheim by stating she had found a way to dramatically improve her people’s quality of life. Which, while her actions were questionable, it is true. The Primes that Eyir could have provided would have dealt with not only the population issues, but also the maintenence issues in a big way. So, no, Genn was only really justified because Blizz handwaved away his actions.
You’re referring to the Bilgewater’s attack on the Explorers League … and no. Not only is BTS really sketchy on the timetable of events (making it appear that Shaw ordered the attack on the Goblins even prior to Magni arriving), but the canon reason the Gobs attacked them was to kidnap Sapphy for Grizzek. The Alliance killed Horde civilians and Blizz handwaved it away. Because it had to be the Horde that “betrayed” the Alliance with the WoT.
EDIT: As for Calia. She may be as Alliance in theme as they come, but she is not of the Alliance. She was also not supposed to be there, and even Anduin and Faol admitted their mistake allowing her to tag along. Not an attack against the Alliance, but certainly Sylvie reasserting her authority over her bulwark.
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And in a city filled with mages under her command who can do the same lol Buuuut conveniently in that specific time, when she was on the apex of her horde hating, warmongering phase, she had no choice but to butcher people without distinction.
Yeah I call bs on that lol
Best part of this. Aethas had no part in the theft of the Bell, but he was aware of it. He was put in a position where he was forced to either throw his people to the wolves of Garrosh, or the wolves of Jaina, and he chose Jaina because he believed she would cause the least amount of harm.
Then of course we have Vareesa Windrunner, who’s reasons for getting on board with the Purge of Dalaran was really just that Ronin died in the Mana Bomb. Her going out of her way to slaughter Horde Wyverns to prevent the BEs from escaping (civilians too) was particularly dark.
And of course … so the Horde could have access to Dalaran to aid against the Legion invasion it was AETHAS who had to bow down and beg for forgiveness; because the Horde had the gall to blow up a city that had been contributing heavily to the Horde war effort on Kalimdor. Remember Taurajo was a “Valid Military Target” (even Baine said so), but Theramore wasn’t?
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I’am seeing alot of Blood Elves trying to throw shade…
Which is funny considering they were essentially the cause the of the Sundering and the War of Ancients, with thier arcane addiction, and general dickery.
uh thats pretty much how it was irl with world war ii…
Or what the US and Canada did during WWII cough Japanese internment cough.
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The descendants of those who caused the sundering are not responsible for it. Blood elves don’t live as long as Night Elves remember?
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Its unclear as to how long, but I believe there has been about 4-5 generations of BEs since Dath’remar’s generation. I would say throwing shade at the Nightborne might be more accurate, but even then … they weren’t really involved on either side. Also, technically the Sundering was due to Malf and Illidan’s plan to disrupt the portal bringing Sargaras in.
Yes, it required them to blow up 80 percent of the world’s landmass to stop their own queen.
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You are right about it being unclear how long BEs can live but they weren’t immortal like the NE were. The longest lived one we see (or I’ve heard of) is that BE rogue that tries to kill Malfurian in the WoT and he was a little kid when his parents suffered (died?) during the exile.
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Most Blood Elves (if not all) today weren’t alive at the time of the Sundering.
And again, not really relevant to the discussion? The race a person plays doesn’t dictate the person’s morality.
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The problem with all of that is the person with the vision has changed. We can ascribe much of the original vision of the Horde to Metzen, but the Horde’s being written by someone else now. It’s either Afrasiabi, Danuser, Golden, or whoever else might be on their team.
They shouldn’t have done the rebellion angle a second time. The idea of the Horde’s ‘cycle’ was weak. I suspect that the writers in charge after Metzen left wanted to do a redux of previously tread ground so that they could put their own stamp on it. I can’t verify that. It’s just a hunch. Still follows the trends of new writers getting the reins to a world they didn’t create and not giving it its due respect.
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I hope we have a Holy War in an upcoming expansion, I think so much can be explored, but i don’t think it has to be divided by factions, rather the zealous and non zealous.
Lady Liadrin for example could just be as much on Turalyon’s side as she could be on the Horde’s.
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Doesn’t matter.
If Dreanei are respondsible for everything the Eredar do, then the Blood Elves are at fault for the Sundering.
The High Born caused the War of Ancients which led to it, and the blood elves are the modern descendants of the Highborne meaning…they are the reason the legion even found azeroth in the first place.
I mean, the issue is less that they’re responsible, but more they sort of created a massive plague that helped scour life clean in the cosmos for like 13k years. It is implied that the majority of the Eradar race did fall to corruption, which is something Velen and the “Draenei” utterly failed in preventing … and then ran allowing what was a Draenei problem to become a Universal one. Similar to how a Kaldorei problem of Azshara was allowed to become a WORLD one.
Then there is the issue of Draenor, where not only did the Draenei put the planet and its relatively “primitive” people’s in the firing line of their civil war, but they apparently deliberately failed to actually give the natives a headsup. Where they just planning on running and leaving the poor residents of Draenor to their fate when they were inevitably found? I can’t imagine they’d make a last stand to protect the people they couldn’t even be bothered to warn.
In the case of the Draenei, the Kaldorei, and the Shal’dorei, due to their longevity there is still some blame for the horrors they let get unleashed upon the setting that can still be placed. That is … less clear with the Sin’dorei, as there isn’t any living member from that time period left. They’ve gone through at least 5 gens since then. So … its more “sin’s of the father” with them?
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Quote the entire post to argue against or not at all.
Most Dreanei have never been to Argus, and have never seen it. Velen says he’s one of the few to remember it.
So givent hat if the Dreanei are at fault for the Eredar, then the blood elves are certainly at fault for there magical crack addict grand daddies.
I understand the point of your post, but I argued that the issue isn’t that the Draenei are responsible for the crimes of the Eradar; they (like the Kaldorei) are however share guilt in allowing a “them” problem to become an “everyone” problem. The prior also have issues putting non-involved parties in the firing line without even the courtesy of a heads-up, which doomed both their species and their world… You can’t really place the same burdens on the Sin’dorei, as they are of a different generation, and are not comprised of the same individuals who lived during that period.
In essence, I disagreed with your assertion that the Draenei share culpability for the Eradar only if the Sin’dorei share culpability for the Sundering. Which is not true unless you’re using “sins of the father” mentality. A more accurate argument would be the Nightborne and the Sundering, but then you’d also placed some responsibility on the Kaldorei too if that were the case.
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