This is a level fifty-five (I think twenty-three now) alt. I have nine Alliance at fifty. One at forty. My Horde alts are just one forty-six and one forty-five otherwise at this point.
That aside, I don’t see what’s rich. What does what I play have to do with his moral system? Even if I played a Horde Forsaken character regularly, that wouldn’t have any influence on his morality. It wouldn’t say anything about my morality either.
Lastly, neither group hardly specializes in killing children. That’s silly.
That’s such a load of BS. When WW2 was won, the Allies didn’t go, “Hey guys, Hitler’s dead, our job is done here, everyone else was just following orders” and then go home.
And yes I’m comparing the Horde in BFA to the axis powers seeing as that seems to be the intention by Blizzard.
Seriously though if this whole, “Literally only Sylvanas was in the wrong and the rest of the Horde is squeaky clean” narrative proves true then the Alliance/Horde War can go on forever and still be believable as long as one person is sacrificed to the altar of bad guy and absolves all responsibility for their faction genociding/torturing/enslaving.
Well, we can’t all revel in a faction so lacking in moral ambiguity anytime they do fringe upon the evil grey, Blizz handwaves it away or buries those moments under cheap justifications. Or allows for Cherry Picking the “Good Ones” out. Like, you do get that if Blizzard hadn’t done this the events leading up to the WoT were riddled with clear acts of Alliance aggression? Or that the only thing that was stupid about Sylvie’s argument to get Saurfang on board was that “They’ll Attack Us Eventually” … because they were already attacking us? Teld may have been a horror show, but the WoT as an independent event was more than justified.
And alot of this is rich coming from someone playing the single most destructive race in the entire setting. Hell, now with the Lightbound “Draenei” its portrayed as if the only thing preventing the Eredar species from going world ending, genocidal crusades is Velen. Without him, it doesn’t matter what power comes in, its time for a Purge of Purity. And best of all, unlike most races of the Horde who grew up in very unforgiving environments … the Eredar’s reasons for doing what they do is they essentially are the Naaru’s Trust-Fund kids who were given everything that made them special; but most of them just got board with eternity in paradise and wanted more.
Well, would you rather see horde players complain about how mean their faction is and pine for the Alliance’s moral high ground? There’s plenty of that on the forums.
Oh please lemme hear these “Cheap justifications” because I guarantee you I’d consider them absolutely justified. The most popular ‘evil act’ I hear the Horde say the Alliance did is the purge of Dalaran which I will justify till the end of time.
Off the top of my head there’s only 2 events in Wow I’d consider ‘morally grey’ or ‘evil’ that the Alliance have done, Camp Taurajo and the Alliance navy trying to kill the Bilgewater Goblins.
Camp Taurajo less so because according to Tides of War, General Hawthorne purposefully let civilians escape. As for the Bilgewater Goblins well they survived and Thrall destroyed their ships and possible them so they came out on top.
Draenei=/=Eredar. Literally every Draenei who exists were the ones who chose NOT to go with the Legion.
The Orc on Draenor tried to exterminate the Draenei then when it was clear they were beaten,“Draenor is free!”. Sorry if the Draenei aren’t dumb enough to just let that get swept under the rug. And at least they aren’t trying to genocide them back.
Ok ok lemme say it again Eredar=/=Draenei
We do not play as Eredar, we play as Draenei. It’d be like if the Frostwolf Orcs broke away from the rest of their race, called themselves “Norks” or whatever, were what we play as in Wow and someone is comparing them to the other Orcs. If we DID play as the Eredar and one of the skin options is for the Draenei then yes, your argument would hold weight, but it doesn’t.
Ofcourse I care about rights, I also know rights can be justifiably taken away like in the real world.
Or do you think criminals should never get in trouble, cause technically speaking when you imprison someone you are taking their rights away.
The bottom line is Alliance and Horde were at war, the Sunreavers promised that while in Dalaran they were not going to aide the Horde, they lied, so Jaina rightfully imprisoned them all because she wasn’t stupid enough to just let them escape to the Horde to help them after the Horde proved it was on a path of extermination towards the Alliance.
Once was forgivable. Twice is criminal negligence. Not to mention when they rejoined Dalaran one of them joined the Legion and nearly helped destroy Dalaran.
Also if the blood elves can justify kicking out the high elves because it was needed by the state to keep peace, I’d say Jaina’s actions was fair play.
The main Sunreaver in charge, after the organization had TWO traitors in the span of a year to a faction that had proven an existential threat to the Alliance races. Why the hell would Jaina bother giving them benefit of the doubt to them.
She’s not omniscient like the players are remember, for all she knew, with completely justified reasoning, every single Sunreaver was secretly working for the Horde and they would only have one person at a time commit treachery to give the ‘few bad apples’ excuse. Let’s consider the worst case scenarios for the two actions Jaina could have taken the moment she realised Aethas was a traitor.
If the Sunreavers weren’t all traitorous and she chose to imprison them until the war was over and kill any who tried to escape, well that sucks for them and while it’s not the best outcome for the Alliance because Varian was trying to get the Blood Elves into the Alliance(which ofcourse he didn’t tell Jaina about), at least they wouldn’t have to worry about any more backstabbing’s.
If they WERE all traitorous and she decided to not imprison them and instead order a full investigation(Because in no alternative Universe with any sense of rationality would she assume the whole organisation is squeeky clean after their LEADER proved traitorous), they would have just all bailed with a bunch of Dalaran secrets, compromised the neutral city and just be more potential allies for the Horde who I remind you proved they wanted nothing more the Alliance extermination.
Jaina’s actions depended upon which moral philosophy she believed in more at the time, “Have faith in the goodness of others” or “Better safe then sorry”. After what she went through leading up to the Purge she’d have to be written as the most naive and retarded character in all of fictional history to believe in the former.
It’s a bad comparison anyway, the Blood Elves kicked the High Elves out because they believed two competing ideologies would weaken Silvermoon but they didn’t think High Elves were secretly spies for the Legion or anything.
The Sunreavers knew what the Horde has done, that they appointed an insane maniac hellbent on exterminating the Alliance, with full knowledge that Jaina could have easily assumed they were traitors who now couldn’t backstab them in the ‘neutral’ city so would just help Garrosh directly and resisted arrest regardless.
In a war where defeat means being annihilated you don’t play nice or according to the rules.
It doesn’t matter which one. The point is that it wasn’t all of them–but all of them got punished.
You’ve moved the goalposts. Your original position was that the punishment was nothing more than righteousness visited upon criminals. Now you’re saying it’s an understandable mistake based on incomplete information.
Anyway, I have better things to do today than re-litigating the Purge of Dalaran with you (or Zerde), so I’ll leave this discussion to those who have the time and energy for it.
Ofcourse it does. At first it was one Blood elf who tried to sabotage the Alliance when Garrosh’s forces invaded Theramore. Ok an isolated incidient. Then the leader of the Sunreavers has proven treacherous? It’s completely reasonable to assume the whole organisation is corrupt or at least a majority of them.
That actually isn’t my position, my position is Jaina can’t possibly know if the whole Sunreaver organisation is corrupt but she has every reason to assume it is either corrupt or criminally incompetent in a way that threatens the Alliance and it’s safer to imprison them to stop them backstabbing Dalaran one final time.
I don’t believe the innocents should be ‘punished’ because simple imprisonment until the war is over is just par for the course when it comes to potential enemies. The ones who were proven traitors to the Alliance should definitely be punished more severely however. Aethes should have never been allowed back into Dalaran.
I mean, as someone who is fine killing non-hostile children, I don’t even know what you think the Horde is doing that’s wrong.
Aethas didn’t even work with the Horde in this scenario, he was blackmailed into silence. And it astounds me that two seems like such a high number when there’s a billion traitors out there.
I never see people demanding a Purge of the Church of the Holy Light despite two members of the senior leadership (Benedictus and Farthing) going to the Twilight Hammer.
I don’t see a demand that the Draenei be should have been Purged because there were a whole bunch of Sargerei traitors.
Heck, most of Darkshire joined the Legion. But there’s not wide-spread persecution of humanity for it. Nor should there be. Because it isn’t a good barometer for who to wantonly imprison/kill.
That’s a completely unreasonable and paranoid thought.
The issue is that the worst case scenarios are outlandish enough that they shouldn’t realistically be considered when choosing to act.
Worst case scenario, Elune is a Void Lord. But the Night Elves shouldn’t act as though that’s a reasonable likelihood.
Again, hence why you don’t care about rights. ‘Sucks people who were entirely uninvolved were killed.’ So blasé about it.
That’s not even true, though. Trust but verify is a thing. She could have investigated more, she chose to jump the gun instead.
He wasn’t even proven to be treacherous, lol.
You’ve already admitted ‘which I will justify till the end of time’. It isn’t defeat to acknowledge it is a waste of time to argue with someone that’s admitted nothing will change their mind.
Only those who fought back were killed. And before you say anything Jaina going around killing NPCs was a bug.
You say potato, I say potato. In the end both were kicked out(or in the case of Jaina given the option to leave) when they didnt comply the whole thing went sour.
As if that ever matter to the blood elves. Or do we have to remind you it was just Garithos who order the killing of the elves and the rest of the Alliance was not complicit? And yet it is the entire Alliance that got blame for that debacle.
It has been too long since I did it. I do recall seeing her teleport blood elf NPC who attack her but I think I saw her kill some as well. So half fixed? I dont feel like regrinding rep.