Will the Horde revert to evil again?

Lore Story Forum
41

God I hope not. Cause this is getting ridiculous. The first identity crysis during Pandaria was ok cause, it was the very first time post Warcraft 3 Horde had a moral crysis.

But a second time? Only poorly done as hell with a forced and contrived narrative that didn’t know where it wanted to go?

I don’t think WoW would survive a third. I know I was pissed off with the Teldrassil burning and of how they forced the Horde into being the moraly wrong side of war AGAIN while the Alliance kept being the holier than thou side who can do no wrong.

I really think Blizzard should leave the Horde alone, focus a bit on the Alliance and forget this ‘‘Horde identity crysis’’ card.

The Horde suffers from too much change, the Alliance suffers for having no change. Also…the Horde had nearly all it’s developed characters either killed or villanized, so much nearly all the Horde Council is composed of characters with less than one expansion of development.

Like out of the 10 council members, the ONLY ones who have more than one expansion of development are Baine, Thrall and Lorthemar. ALL others either got in at the end of Legion or on BfA

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42

Yeah, I can just hear the cries of “Alliance Bias/Favoritism” from the Horde players with that. Even negative development is too much development for some players.

43

If butchering the entire cast of a faction and villain bat it every chance they get is ‘‘Horde bias’’ then I’m 100% ok having “Alliance Bias” here. Cause everytime Blizzard gives attention to anything, it ends with either the character their focusing on getting killed off or gettin insane.

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44

I feel like, unless the other leaders are onboard, it’d be hard to dissolve the council without losing all the races with it.

45

Take it time. Since Anduin was taken by Dark Val’kyr. It’ll be the Alliance turn next.

46

WoW’s storytelling isn’t arithmetic, it’s algebra.

You don’t add Existing Fact + Existing Fact to produce a Story Event.

You Start with some facts, AND the event you want, and you solve for whatever additional facts need to be introduced to get you there.

It’s not “1 + 2 = X”, it’s “1 + X = 5.”

The Horde will be evil if Blizzards wants to tell another Horde Evil story. The current state of their leadership is irrelevant. Likewise, absolutely nothing about the Horde prior to BfA mandated BfA. A different leadership group would have changed the variables, but it would have done absolutely nothing to prevent the solution that Blizzard was shooting for.

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47

Depends on how out of favor with the general peoples of the Horde the council managed to get. For instance if previously mentioned incidents of Alliance microaggression continued to pile up and grate on the peoples of the Horde, a call for war might become louder and louder. If the council refuses they might lose popularity and support among the peoples, which might invite rebellions and/or coups.

Other possibilities exist.

I’ll believe it when I see it.

48

That’s perfect! I’ve been circling around trying to say something like this for months, but you nailed it.

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49

Revert?

No, sweet summer child, the Horde was always evil.

Which is a shame considering one of the more peaceful races in Azeroth joined it in the Tauren.

How do I know they’ve always been evil?

Orcs- Genocided, and destroyed there own planet, and attempted to do the same to Azeroth twice, and are still more than eager to engage in slavery and genocide to spite being cleansed of demonic taint.

Forsaken- Unnatural Undead Monsters bent on inflicting as much pain, suffering and death on the world as possible.

Blood Elves - The Descendants of the High Borne that sparked the war of ancients, who turned there backs on there strongest allies, only to flee to the arms of the race that tried to genocide them.

Trolls - By and large a cannibalistic race, bent on manipulating dark twisted magics.

Tauren = All Good here no baddies.

Goblins- Slavery, and war crime experts. Even aided Doomhammers Dark Horde in it’s attempt to genocide the planet, along with siding with Garrosh and Slyvanas by and large. Not great at picking good sides.

Not going to go over the Allied races we don’t know enough about them to do so.

The Horde has always been evil, even under Thralls Leadership he was willing to turn a blind eye to the Warsong outriders, and the Forsakens blatant millitary actions against the Alliance in a time of peace without care or regard.

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50

See, this post seems sort of tragic to me, because just above you there’s Gavik explaining why and how the story works the way it does, and all you’re doing is saying ‘here is a list of what the story has done’, which I think is way less useful and tends to end in people having quasi-RP-fights where they hurl bits of WoW’s shoddy-and-assembled-on-the-spot ‘facts’ at each other like harpoons rather than examining the whole mess more critically.

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51

Whats to consider?

In most expacs when they want some Horde and Alliance fighting, the Horde goes out and does some effed up things, and the Alliance has to check them.

That’s the whole of it, there is no deeper meaning. I’am sorry you picked the evil faction?

52

I honestly, earnestly do believe that there’s whole conversations to be had around not just what you’ve said, but about why most people would dismiss there being any ‘deeper’ meaning to them out of hand. WoW’s story is a combination of slight twists on generic shlock, yes - but how ‘generic’ gets defined is interesting in and of itself. The repetitive story structure you’re talking about most definitely exists, it’s almost certainly put together thoughtlessly, it’s absolutely assembled with a minimal eye to actual quality or craft, and we know for a fact that the storytelling division of the development team has no control over the plot’s direction.
So isn’t what comes out of that sort of one-degree-from-hackneyed mess going to be interesting to look at closely, if only so we can understand what sort of storytelling a specific subset of the video game industry considers to be effortlessly boring and why?

Maybe a quicker way to put it would be this: would you rather learn about every single detail of a really boring and stupid story (and argue with people over them), or would you rather learn about how and why that story came to be so typical and normalized that it can’t be anything but boring and stupid (and argue with people about that)?

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53

Sigh … maybe? Blizz will never allow for a single iota of grey within the Alliance without handwaving it away or burying it under a mountain of justifications, so maybe?

The spark for conflict needs to come from somewhere … and the writers seem to feel far freer to do whatever hairbrained thing they want to do with the Horde than they do the Alliance. Which is weird, because the Horde is also the same faction they keep deliberately operating in an entirely different genre of fantasy as the Alliance, so whenever the Horde goes off the deepend the Alliance has to get hit hard with both the nerf and stupid sticks.

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54

Blizzard would have to come up with a story for the Horde that isn’t just being bad guys for the Alliance. No sign that they have any thing like that

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55

This. The Horde will do something pointlessly self-defeatingly evil again the instant the writers watch too much METALOCALYPSE.

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56

I feel like its only a council by default, not design. Nobody wanted to put their hand up for the top job, and really just feels like a scene from apocalypse now, “Who’s in charge here?”

57

Which … sucks. Like, even if they’re largely underdeveloped, underused, and just underpowered I actually like the roster that we have comprising the council conceptually. If Blizz was going to this, get rid of the staple of the Warchief, one would hope they would at least commit and invest to make the most of it. Really use it as an excuse to start undoing nearly a decade of damage and neglect by building up this new roster. Of characters I do really like.

But … well … I kinda doubt we’ll see that potential actualized.

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58

Ummm the Draenei purposefully differentiated themselves from the Eredar, none of the Horde have ever done that. Orcs still consider themselves Orcs despite what their race has done. Besides they didn’t do that to the Orcs themselves.

If that child fights for and defends the father after what he has done then sure.

Tried to and failed so not really an apt comparison.

Do individuals in the Horde show mercy? Maybe? Does the Horde as a whole show mercy? Bfa says no.

And mercy is kind of meaningless when it’s a war they started for immoral reasons, basically pre-emptive strike based on nothing. The Horde wanting to conquer the Alliance because they are scared the Alliance may attack first is nothing but evil.

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59

I was actually hoping they would introduce a true council, independent of faction leaders. You know a council of Elders or ‘wisemen’ which would broaden both the roster and the cultural representation. I feel that once the horde settled in orgrimmar a council would have been a natural progression.

60

I feel like just asking them to develop the actual Racial Leaders is asking for too much with how they’ve written our faction for the last decade. I’m aiming for what should be more attainable, but honestly … I’m not holding my breath.

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