This. Questioning orders and hesitating when they are given can get people killed. If it’s illegal, immoral or unethical we are legally obligated to question and go to the next higher command.
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Pick 1.
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I think you will find that I have pointed out that it is internally conflicting for the Draenei to think they had managed to give the Legion the slip, but the fact remains that the story presents the Draenei as believing they gave the Legion the slip. But I will humour you, and expand further. Even if the Draenei had accepted that the Legion was going to come to Draenor eventually, there are good reasons why they might not tell the orcs about the Legion, starting with not chancing conflict with the orcs immediately over the orcs fear. Or that they then run the risk of orcs deciding to sell the Draenei out to the Legion. There is simply no reason to believe that the Draenei telling the orcs about the Legion would have any positive effect. When they landed, the orcish ancestors did not exist in the way they did later, since Oshu’gun hadn’t existed previously. So the Draenei obviously could not have warned the orcs about them impersonating their ancestors. If they had gone with warning them that the Legion would invade the planet, they ran the risk of the orcs deciding to kill them then and there out of fear. The reasonable take would be that the Draenei erred by landing on Draenor when it had intelligent life on it, but that ignores the fact that the Draenei crashed there. Their presence on Draenor was not their choice. In fact, the new chronicles, apparently, retconned how Talgath found them. In RotH, it was said that the Draenei’s use of magic brought them to Draenor, which would be a case to make that the Draenei made choices that brought the Legion to Draenor. In the new canon, however, it is the energies unleashed by the crash that alerted Talgath to the Draenei’s location.
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Well, we know what the result of their own inaction was.
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Good thing the orcs aren’t a military.
A great deal of Durotan’s musing in RotH are based around how he feels what they are doing is wrong. And additionally, you also have the fact that as the orcs start their murdering, the elements abandon them. So there was another ‘authority’ that weighed in on their actions in a negative way, and the orcs still doubled down.
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I have to jump in here and say that the Draenei offered to uplift the Orcs on Original Dreanor and would have in order to help defend the Orcs from the inevitable onslaught of the Burning Legion.
Yet the Orcs didn’t wan’t to be uplifted. The Draenei were kinda snobs too though and told the orcs some stuff about Oshygun being all derrrss, however, it probably just crashed on some important Orcish place and the Orcs weren’t cool with how the Dreanei wanted to kind of be better than them.
Still not reason enough to throw in with the crusade in a genocidal wave of biological warfare towards a species that originally was trying to offer you gooood stuff and fancy space tech and spiritual ways that transcend realities.
This didn’t happen. The Draenei mostly avoided the orcs, because the orcs mostly wanted to avoid the Draenei. They weren’t enemies, they were more like neighbours in a neighbourhood who don’t talk, but nod at each other over the fence.
Partially, at least, because the Draenei settled Shattrath on an ogre city the orcs had beseeched the elements to destroy, and the destruction spooked them and made them regard the ruins as cursed. Then the ogres came back to reclaim the city from the Draenei, and the Draenei wrecked them easily. As a result the orcs were mildly afraid of the Draenei, and just wanted to be left alone.
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He wasn’t the one who had the original visions, though. And you’re moving the goalposts a bit by bringing up stuff that happened later. I mean, once the Alliance arrived at the Broken Shore and saw just how many demons were there, you’d think some of them might start to doubt Shaw’s intelligence as well.
Reminds me of an equally valid comparison from another thread:
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Doesn’t matter that he wasn’t the one to receive the visions. There was plenty of reasons that the orcs in general might decide something was odd about what Nerzhul and Guldan were doing. They didn’t follow through on that. If not following through on that had only caused the orcs to suffer, then it would be less of a deal. If I do something and it backfires on me, that is mu fault, I am the one paying for it, it has no broader significance to the world at large. But if I do something that hurts other people, then I have done something wrong that requires something more of me.
From a quickly look at this recent topic raised at this discussion, I came to the conclusion that Blizzard needs to stop one sided sources of conflict or else they’re sowing a dangerous field that will produce bigots in the alliance fandom whenever the horde moves a finger.
That or let us kill freely the vermin on the alliance and let us decorate our homes with elfie and human heads please!
I don’t think that’s true. I think he genuinely underestimated the defiance Genn would show.
Just because some orcs weren’t fooled doesn’t prove that the orcs who were fooled were evil. Everyone’s got their own threshold; what convinces one person won’t necessarily convince another. That doesn’t show that being convinced (or not) is due to a moral flaw.
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I would take the analogy one step further toward accuracy. Say you’re not just a single employee in a fine crystal shop, but rather a single worker among thousands on an immense factory floor. The regional manager comes out to the floor, gets out a microphone, and shouts for everyone to smash everything, citing Zuleika’s lawsuit justification.
It doesn’t matter if you personally object, because the guy next to you is already getting out his hammer, twenty guys you grew up with are in smash city already. Then you turn around and your mother, father, children and siblings are also smashing all the crystalware, and you don’t like the look they give you when they see you’re not breaking things yet.
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Durotan wasn’t even “not fooled”. He admits that even though it feels off, he trusts whatever Nerzhul is saying and will follow through. He says as much to Velen.
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Everyone else was doing a compelling argument does not make.
But it certainly paints a different picture than what you’ve been trying to describe.
The way I see it, the Draenei were certainly not responsible for their own genocide, but neither were the orcs entirely responsible for knowing better about the Legion when no one told them. What happened on Draenor was a tragedy orchestrated by the Legion.
Anyway, none of what I’m saying matters, because you’re stuck in your position no matter what, and the MU orcs don’t need punishment for what happened on Draenor anyway. I’m pretty much just thinking out loud here.
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I have earlier said that the blame is shared between the Legion and the orcs in that regard. The orcs did not go about killing the Draenei entirely of their own accord. They were mislead and manipulated into it. It would not have happened but for the Burning Legion. But the orcs still did it. As opposed to saying “The genocide of the Draenei and the First War were a direct consequence of the eye of KJ being brought upon Draenor by the Draenei,” from earlier in the thread.
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Sure, I agree with that then. I think it’s a severe over-correction when people who want to defend the orcs instead just attack the Draenei, but I think a lot of lore discussion falls into that trap of binary thinking.
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The Horde should get an Iconic win over the alliance and restore Anduin to his throne. Maybe even have Thrall there and have it an unconditional surrender of like Genn and Tyrande.
Turyalon and Velen are good guys but the light only shows them one possible future and that future should drive the alliance against a brick wall from which the Void elves and Locus walkwer have to save them. Let the Void elves break the rules and disobey the orders this time around. Maybe get the Lightforged painted as just like "We’re going to go in and eradicate anything not “the light” and start wrecking the heckin heck outa all the covenants in the name of the light, because the afterlife should be a heaven were EVERYONE is perfect and good amiright… and it’s the shadowlands people that let Azeroth get all wiggly.
And uhh, we sorta oofed letting the light into the shadowlands.
Btw I’m leaning heavily towards Maldraxis as a cov so I don’t want to see them get exploded in the name of the light but it would be cute to see how it goes.
