Will the Horde revert to evil again?

Being wrong doesn’t automatically make you morally culpable.

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Very true. That depends on who in particular pays for your being wrong.

Kinda ya the horde gleefully followed Sylvanus and the rest of the Forsaken. With hardly so much as a “oh my that was a very bad idea, we are soooo sorry, here, let us gather supplies, food, and help you rebuild”, towards the night elves.

So yeah. They are evil and Anti Azeroth as ever. Their just more Noble about it for now. There’s not really any more way the horde could go off the deep end. If anything the Alliance is teetering on the brink of chaos and the horde will probably be the ‘rock’ that blizzard relies on to ‘re-uinite’ people against the Sylvanus faction, NPCs. Wish they made a 3rd faction :smiley:

No it doesn’t. Sometimes bad things just happen even when nobody does anything to deserve it.

That is also true, but not relevant to this situation.

I think it is. The Broken Shore situation and the deception of the orcs both happened because people trusted information that seemed to come from trustworthy sources. There was no way they could have known that there was reason to be suspicious. They were simply outplayed, not morally lacking.

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And in the Broken Shore case, the Alliance and Horde went in as actors, and their mistakes effected themselves.

In the orc case the prime sufferers of the orcs mistake was not the orcs. It was the Draenei. If the orcs had been approached on their own by KJ and went “Whoah, getting super strength? What a great deal, sign me up!” and then only after realized they were being shackled into addiction and servitude to the Legion, and that was it? That would be comparable to the Broken Shore situation.

To further expand on the orcish situation, if it had been a simple matter of KJ completely impersonating the ancestors, leaving the orcs with no avenue to fall back on, that would also be one thing. But the biggest issue with the stance of “The orcs were tricked by their ancestors and leaders, and had no way to get to the truth” is that it ignores the fact that KJ impersonated one ancestor, and only briefly at that. From that point on he had his lackeys straight up order the rest of the orcish tribes to not contact the ancestors. Say you worked in a fine crystal and china shop. Very expensive. And one day, a coworker came to you and said, “Hey, the boss wants you to take this hammer and smash all the really expensive crystalware.” And when you asked if you could go back to talk to the boss, your coworker simply said “Nope, you can’t do that.”

Do you smash the crystalware? Or do you decide that you are being fooled?

This analogy has two flaws. First, the person who comes to you with the orders isn’t just a coworker with the same rank as you; it’s the regional manager, who has been giving you orders from corporate HQ for as long as you’ve worked at the place. Second, the regional manager provides a reason beyond just “the boss said to do it.” (In the case of the orcs, they were told that the draenei were going to wipe them out if they didn’t act first.) So I’d reframe it like this:

Say you’ve been working in a fine crystal shop for ten years, and the regional manager has been giving you directives from corporate all that time, which you’ve followed and been rewarded for following. Then one day, the manager comes to you and says, “Hey, we just got a message from corporate that the really expensive crystalware is actually cheap knock-offs that got swapped in without our knowledge, and we’ll be sued into oblivion if we sell it as genuine. Take this hammer and smash it all.”

Yeah, I can’t see why I wouldn’t do that.

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Bad analogy, because the orders were coming from someone below the ultimate authority, and were made to keep the person from contacting the ultimate authority. Still, you are correct that the person passing the message on was also an authority, if not the top one. So call it your team lead coming to you and telling you to smash stock, and at the same time telling you you could not go to the boss.

Why would I want to go to the boss, if I trust that my team lead has gotten the orders directly from the boss, and the team lead also provides a plausible reason for the smashing?

Also, the ultimate authority in my analogy is corporate HQ.

The orc mistake was caused because of the draenai mistake.

:pancakes:

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Then I suppose you are also fairly gullible and would deserve your inevitable firing.

Which mistake was that?

Not prepping the orcs for the inevitable arrival of the Legion and its agents.

:pancakes:

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The story presents the arrival of the Legion as not inevitable. On that basis alone your point fails. Try again.

So, the orcs on Draenor weren’t doomed anyway?

:pancakes:

Do you work an actual job?

Do you demand to get all your orders direct from the top boss and no one else?

If your supervisor asks you to do something, do you insist on having the top boss back it up before you do it?

I submit that this isn’t how things work in the real world, and it’s not reasonable to ask for them to work that way in a fictional world either.

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I do if I am asked to do something that sounds dumb. Like being asked to smash something I was previously certain was expensive, as opposed to just taking it off the shelves, and at worst throw it out.

Definitely not how it works IRL in the military.

:pancakes:

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But what if it doesn’t sound dumb? That’s the whole point of coming up with a plausible reason why you should do the thing.

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In a military setting, a lieutenant isn’t going to question his captain. The captain won’t question the Major, and so on. The only way they would question it, in the real world, is if it would be an illegal order.

Otherwise, that lower ranking officer will never say, “Uh, I want to hear the insert ranking officer here give me the order, not you, sir.”

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