I feel like that will remain wishful thinking. They had the opportunity for the morally grey this expansion, but obscured it in favour of a demonized horde. If they present Turalyon et al. as bad, it merely ups the anti on how bad they have to present the horde or horde reps.
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Yeah, it doesn’t matter what fringe people think in analysing it.
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Stone can erode and break. Really depends what takes the current Blizzard’s writers fancy and that lot are frankly too fickle for my liking.
People who say this have no concept of morality. Basically what your saying is nothing the Alliance did would be evil as long as it was done to the Horde. So lets just say, an alliance leader attacked a horde settlement, killed all the people there but the children and then had the children be forced to ‘work’ in a brothel. Are you saying that wouldn’t be an act of evil?
Immoral and ‘evil’ acts don’t change just because of who you do them to.
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Sylvanas is perverse. It’s going to take years for Go’el to sift through the baggage. I
I’m all for horde finally dropping the monster nation mentality and get back to work erecting orkish fortresses all over and reunite all the orks from the Eastern Kingdoms.
The identity of the horde must never be anything without the Lok’tar Ogar theme.
Om the alliance end, all humans must join the alliance and do what they’re supposed to do: protect their allies. That means Lordaeron. Silverpine Forest, Stratholme, Hearthglen, Andorhal, Light’s Hope, Tyr’s Hand, Undercity (gnomes), Scholomance, Hilsbrad, Southshore, Alterac, GILNEAS cough cough etc etc
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(Observation): The Horde going evil is not a problem with the leaders of the Horde, so much as it’s a problem with the people of the Horde. In 8.2 after Azshara is defeated, Lor’themar states he’ll return to Quel’Thalas and begin to oppose Sylvanas, and that he hopes most of his people will follow him. In 8.2.5 when Saurfang and Anduin team up, we learn that most of the Horde is still loyal to Sylvanas, and that’s after the War of Thorns and campaigns that consistently ended in losses or failure.
(Commentary): There is a fundamental issue with the people of the Horde, and while having a Council of wise and peace-seeking individuals will be part of the solution, the other part has to come from the Horde itself. Gone are the days that the Warchief is the Horde. Now, the people are the Horde.
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Exactly. From kings to republics. Exciting to see happen in a video game.
Whereas the Alliance hopefully goes back to alliances among humanity. A Supreme Commander that can travel among nations to impress them to reintegrate into the Alliance as a whole.
The Knights of the Silver Hand could be that long arm to round up and fortify all the lands of the Eastern Kingdoms.
The orks need to relocate completely and do the same in Central-to-Southern Kalimdor. Like, seriously fortify it up. Surge ork numbers to keep pace with humanity.
Both are the military arms of their respective nation. Let them keep the job as footmen and grunts for the security of their nations. The job is to protect your allies.
That’s kinda funny, because factions in wow are never written like people with opinions and goals, but instead like a faceless, nameless… mass that does whatever their leader wants to do.
Everyone keeps saying how the Alliance would never ever have attacked the Horde because Anduin is nice, rarely stopping to think that perhaps being nice to the Horde is not at all what his kingdom wants. And this is pre-WoT.
Sylvanas wanted to burn the tree. And that automatically meant that everyone else wanted it too, since the catapults went off. And noone seems to question it except Saurfang.
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(Observation): Well, the Horde gets to have opinions different from their leaders, but unfortunately, those opinions are almost always war. Back before Cataclysm, when a band of Night Elf sentinels were skinned alive by Orcs and strung up in Ashenvale, the Alliance demanded Thrall hand over the perpetrators (not that he had them, it was the Twilight’s Hammer), but Thrall refused to so much as even condemn the atrocity because the Horde would rebel against him. Seems that while Thrall personally didn’t like it, the rest of the Horde was applauding it. That itself was a result of the Night Elves cutting off trade with the Horde due to events at the Wrathgate, and the Horde suffering famine and drought.
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This isn’t even about the Horde. This is more about how Blizzard writes faction being just clones of their leader. It’s especially evident by racial leaders. Everyone thinks all Tauren act like Baine, but is that really true?
In any case, I have no idea what “the Horde” wants. I can guess what Thrall wants. I know what Talanji wants. But what about everyone else? I might be missing some lore, but I genuinely don’t know.
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Nothing is ever set in stone and predicting the future in WoW seems more like a seeing an infinite number of possibilities and hoping you pick the right one(while an infinite number of variable potentially make your choice tenous at best).
‘The people’ only have relevance when it suits a story direction though. Post SoO kind of represented a form of constitutional and existential crisis for the horde, but there was no mention of reforms or new directions that I recall. It was mainly just follow Thrall through the dark portal.
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I don’t care much for the notions of good and evil at a war game where the writers shows a huuuuge bias toward two certain races.
As long they keep each race interesting and building a complex culture rather than humans with different skin colour, all is good for me (though I want to see some races like Trolls gain more lands lorewise and show progression on each race instead of moving around humans/orcs)
The OP clearly means:
“Will the Horde ever retaliate against the incessant Alliance aggression and war mongering, and defend itself against the Alliance’s hegemonic terror campaign?”
Hopefully it will.
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Yes, but what’s best for Azeroth is generally what’s best for the Horde. Since they live on it.
Lordaeron is not their ally anymore.
This reminds me so much of Mortal Kombat 11, where after speanding the whole game liberating the people of Outworld with Kitana, as soon as Shao Khan comes back and and is like “Raaaa! Empire!” they’re all like “Yeah! Empire!”
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Shooting someone for no reason is evil, but shooting back isn’t.
Everything up to the brothel bit because Sylvanas didn’t do that, rezzing them and turning them into slaves would be fair game though.
Umm yes they do. A serial killer taking an innocent persons life is evil, an executioner taking a serial killer’s life isn’t.
Only because the Horde shows no mercy and wants to exterminate whoever they consider enemies, so it doesn’t really count.
Rubbish. Even more so since by the same logic what the orcs did to the Draenei wasn’t evil because their race was guilty of far, far worse than anything the Horde has ever done thanks to the Eredar membership of the Burning Legion.
No they don’t. People who think they do only see good and evil as defined by their egos rather than having any basis in ethics or morality.
Your basically saying, by that logic, it is ok to murder a person’s children if that person murder yours, even if the children did nothing. By the same token, anyone the Bilgewater Goblins kill in the alliance is fine because the Alliance navy tried murdering them all just for being caught up in their attempt to assassinate Thrall.
Sure the Horde shows mercy. Saurfang literally gave a quest to have horde players give mercy to civilians even during the War of Thorns. The Horde specifically targeted warmongering Quillboar chiefs in the barrens in the hopes of making peace with the more moderate ones.
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Honestly, I’m finding it hard to care about the OP’s question. The damage is done. It will be very difficult to undo, assuming the devs actually put in the effort to undo it.
And if what it takes for them to not make the Horde evil is to make it unrecognizable, I can’t bring myself to get excited about that either. If the stuff that drew me to the Horde is gone, why should I care whether its replacement gets the villain bat or not?
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So we’ve found a pretty easy logistic for the Alliance to be evil.
You think killing uninvolved children and controlling them as slaves is fair game? Weird moral system.
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Probably, in some form or another. Despite giving us a council of leaders who mostly aren’t warmongers they’ll find that one among them who gets angry and finds a way to dissolve the council and become the next derpchief.
It’ll go something like this: Starting next expansion or as early as next patch we’ll start seeing little Alliance micro-aggression incidents against the Horde that’ll get excused or be made to look like the Horde’s fault. We saw it in Legion right up to the start of BfA. It’ll keep up until people on the Horde will argue that the Alliance won’t allow the Horde to live in peace and then they’ll strike back.
That’ll be official Faction War #3, again with the Horde as the aggressors.
What? Turalyon or Yrel? Them? Aggressive? Give me a break. Blizzard hasn’t allowed Alliance to start a war with the Horde since Daelin Proudmoore. Since then the story writers are made up of a bunch of peeps who go to sleep hugging their Lord of the Rings collection silently whispering to themselves “Orcs are bad, humans are good, elves and dwarves are sidekicks”.
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