Sure the alliance did. Considering the tauren ONLY got slaughtered because the ALLIANCE forced them to flee. Take off the blue goggles for a change.
But the act was during a war…a war the Horde started.
The alliance have treated Horde civilians a lot better then the Horde have treated alliance ones, in both wars the Horde started during WoW.
Still doesn’t make it right…like at all. Regardless of who started the war. And we both know that blizz will never write the alliance as doing anything remotely resembling a Morally Grey/Suspect action.
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And the Alliance where forced to attack them because of a war the Horde started, so still the Horde are at fault.
Well Blizzard has defined the burning of Teldrasill as morally grey and that was not only completely unprovoked but the Horde suffered no equivalent punishment for it.
So…I’d be totally fine doing morally grey actions as long as they are equal to Horde’s morally grey, where we get to suffer no repercussions.
It’s not immoral for the Alliance to attack places for training new soldiers for the Horde, during a war…especially a war the Horde started.
The camp was a valid military target.
Not really. But we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
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So…what exactly, during a war the Alliance isn’t allowed to attack Horde military targets if the Horde chooses to build them in hostile environments that would leave them open to attack if they were forced to flee?
Yeah, sadly the Alliance faction does allow for the sort of player that revels in moral absolutism.
The faction, as they are portrayed, honestly has less moral ambiguity than the Teletubbies at times; as it can always depend on Blizzard to handwave away or bury under justifications just about anything they do. This would not bother me so much if it weren’t for the fact their Faction Power fantasy towers over the Horde’s if they aren’t handicapped. Or that the Horde is filled with races that aren’t loosely based off of traditional European style cultures.
I mean, by all indications we are going into an expansion that has a very high chance to be about a redemption arc for Arthas; one of the barely two “Alliance Regrets” Anduin could BS up on short notice. Right after another expansion that proved Daelin completely right, where the races of the Horde are portrayed as inferior, primitive, savage, evil monsters … “with only a few being OK people”. Truly let that probably accidental messaging sink in for a moment…
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Blizzard, sadly rarely does anything by accident when it comes to moralizing to the playerbase why the horde sucks and the alliance is always justified.
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The Alliance has done bad things, it’s there’s obviously disagreement to what one would ‘consider’ bad. In the situations where both Horde and Alliance agree to a thing the Alliance has done that they either shouldn’t have, or felt they were forced into a bad spot but were wrong regardless, those who did it were punished.
And Garrosh is probably gonna get redeemed to so it evens out, unless they also redeem Sylvanas.
And I’ll only consider it ‘redeemed’ if Arthas gets saved from the maw and put into a ‘pleasant’ afterlife, not Revendrath, seeing as Revendrath is where he was likely going to end up anyway if not for Devos going behind Kyrestia’s back.
Wouldn’t have been a issue to begin wit if the ALLIANCE didn’t get the bright idea to start building a brand spanking new base in horde territory, than act suprised when the horde starts a war of agression over it.
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Yeah ok are you really sure that’s how the events transpired? The Alliance and Horde were all lovely dovey at peace and then Alliance decided to build a base in Horde territory for no reason which made the Horde declare war on them? Is that really the hill you want to die on?
LOL, is that what you saw? Kael’thas seems like he is primed for some sort of redemption in Rivendreath, but no way in hell Garrosh is. I’d wager AU Grom has a better chance at getting one if he survives the AU Lightquisition long enough for them to find their way to Azeroth, than MU Garrosh getting redeemed. The Horde does not get the same privilaged justifications you Blue’s do. In fact, “justifications” seem rarely considered or validated. Rather Blizz deliberately insulates the Alliance, and allows for cherry picking Blue; and painting with broad strokes Red.
And dude … even the smallest things like the Alliance attacking the Bilgewater in Silithus you’re arguing was justified, despite the fact that the murky timetable of events in BtS implies Shaw’s attack on them happened before Wix’s napping of Sapphretta (which as much as I love that pair, those two do truly exist to serve as a weak justification for the Alliance attacking the Horde without consequence in that zone). The flawless “paragons of every concievable moral virtue” Alliance are always right (even if they’re hit with the nerf and stupid sticks from time to time), the vile Horde races are always wrong (nothing they ever do is ever justified ever).
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I wouldn’t bother arguing with him hun. His part of a small minority on this forum that are extremists when it comes to justifying any and all actions taken against those Vile, backward primitives in the horde. The horde could save a orphanage and these players will scream that it was somehow a act of war against the alliance.
They only saved that orphanage to EAT the orphans! The Horde must be stopped!
Those blasted savages! Always getting to the good stuff first! We need to exterminate them for good! 
Ok first of all, if Kael’thas IS redeemed the dude still ended up wanting to destroy Azeroth before he died via the Legion as some sort of middle finger to the planet so even if he and Arthas are redeemed it’s still 1-1 so it evens out. But what the hell makes you think Arthas is getting redeemed and Garrosh isn’t? AND there’s even a possibility, no matter how small that Sylvanas is going to get ‘redeemed’ in some way so if her, Kael’thas and Garrosh are redeemed then the Horde is still 3-1.
Oh and Arthas being saved from the Maw isn’t him being redeemed if he’s sent to where Garrosh is.
You’re right it is murky, apparently one of the Novella’s sheds greater light into who really ‘attacked first’ so i’m gonna read em now.
So the fact her bodyguards were flat out murdered is cheap justification?
More like nothing they do against the Alliance except in very, very rare cases is justified, because well it isn’t…
I noticed. Which is really weird because whenever you run into that righteous few, they’re the first to try to retort about vague “Alliance ambiguity” if someone points out truly how insulated the faction is from their own few “grey” actions. As if the nearly flawless nature of the faction they so clearly revel in is in fact a flaw itself that must be washed away whenever pointed out.
For god’s sake, Aethas had to bow his head an apologize for the Purge of Dalaran to allow he Horde a chance back into the city to help fight the Legion; while Jaina and Vareesa get off largely scott free. What they did was truly monstrous, but because of what they lost they’re treated as justified.
Baine agreed that Taraujo was a “Valid Military Target” for training Hunters and Wariors that “might” be used for the Horde army, while Theramore is treated like a great tragedy despite actively working heavily in the Alliance Kali War Effort. Both were valid, only one was really treated as such.
Varian declares War on the Horde in WotLK, and leads the NEs into ceasing trade with the Horde which causes a mass famine. But Garrosh was the one that started the War because of a convenient Peace Treaty signed just in time for him to break it in between expansions.
Everything proceeding the WoT is riddled with aggressive Alliance acts, which means that the Alliance was already attacking the Horde … not that “they would inevitably attack the Horde” like Sylvie argued. But all of its either ignored or discounted, so the WoT is a “out of nowhere betrayal”.
This sort of crap happens SO MUCH! Its truly is sort of insane.
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I also blame the WoTLK war on the Horde, even though Varian declared war.
If the Forsaken were not creating biological weapons/experimenting on human beings, Varian would not have started that conflict.
The Horde should have placed more control over the Forsaken, so bio weapons, wrathgate, inhuman experimentation, never happened.