I don’t really find the solution to pvp gear that hard tbh… Go back to WOD style of scaling the gear up in pvp let’s say 232 for conquest gear. The solution to it not being useless in pve is just keeping the upgrade system that’s in right now.
It would solve the gear problem in pvp and it would’nt make pvp gear useless in pve and give people a reason to rank up in pvp. Also need to make changes to pve gearing but that’s another topic.
Oh, what an excellent word
“Gear is gear” will never work as long as you have LFR, Normal, Heroic, and Mythic.
For “gear is gear” to be a thing you need to essentially trash everything but mythic.
That would not be a good thing.
Small, incremental upgrades with a chance at good luck balanced by a currency-dependent deterministic path would be ideal. So for example, you could bring back titanforging, cap titanforging at mythic ilvl, and allow valor to increase the ilvl of a given item similar to how honor works. For this to properly work you’d have to greatly increase or remove the valor cap.
Then you could leave PvP completely untouched.
So let’s say you do a +15 key and you get a big forge: bam, you have a 226 trinket.
Let’s say you do a +15 and get nothing or just the baseline item: You can then go to the valor vendor and purchase the item directly, or purchase an ilvl boost for that item.
This would have the following benefits:
1.) PvE players could still benefit from doing rated PvP, but boosting would be much less worthwhile. This would clean up the 2v2 bracket.
2.) PvP players could still hop into PvE content (and vice versa) but would possess no inherent advantage or disadvantage aside from that inherently carried by gear and skill.
3.) It would allow all the upside of RNG (yay, I got lucky!) while removing the downside (wtf 12 weeks and no weapon???!!?!!??).
4.) It would provide bad luck protection.
5.) It would incentive players to do content below their skill level in PvE on the off-chance they get a massive reward. Right now high end players have almost no reason to do normal/heroic raids or lower keys, which means pugging this content is more difficult due to a lower skill pool. If we can randomly get a massive upgrade (even if it’s very very rare) then suddenly the incentive exists.
A game like the Shadowlands is absurdly expensive to develop. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it costed AVTI hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more, to arrive at this product that was ready to ship. They have to earn that money back plus at least the require rate of return.
While many don’t care if ATVI earns this amount by selling store mounts or WoW Tokens, I do think it’s healthier for long-term profitability if they can make the game addicting in a fun way. Like Stoopzz’s proposed Tinder-like friend finder for Arena 2v2.
2020 hasn’t been released yet but the information is out there. Here is their 2019 release:
https://investor.activision.com/static-files/e610f6ff-cdf2-4f92-b373-4df046a590bb
Seriously bro use google.
i like to do all 3 sets of end game. mythic plus, raid, and pvp. im not a fan of this idea of different gear from pvp and pve. it was nice to try to push my rating to get gear i can use in both pve and pvp.
ill never understand why people dont play the entire game. like, just go play some pvp. its not the end of the world. if you dont want to do it then just realize you’re going to gear slower.
crazy idea? keep the system we have now. increase pve loot drops. scale pve gear down in pvp. call it a win.
alternatively, remove all gear drops from raid and mythic plus. add vendors for both of those. all players can now target their gear on a vendor. scale pve gear down in pvp. call it a win.
edit: even crazier idea. templates in pvp for main stats. give players the ability to dump stats into the secondary stats with like 1000 points. whatever the amount is now adays. let skill be the factor for pvp. gear can still be rewarded but only for pve. i know, you pvp’rs dont like pve but its literally 2/3 of end game.
I quit the last 2 Xpacs because I had to PVE to PVP. I only came back for this xpac because I didn’t have to, for me PVP is the whole game. Before anyone says go play something else, I have over 10000 hrs played invested in these toons. And if I decide to pve I still have the option.
I have to disagree with you on templates as you no longer have any incentive to progress other than rating. I would like to see vendors for both sides and tokens that drop from both and allow you to buy the piece you want with a minimum obtained to get the higher pieces like in WoD(20000 conquest earned before you could buy the conquest weapon).
Na anyone who likes pvp knows this system is better {wod 1}
This not correct. The templates were badly balanced. Some classes/specs got exactly what they needed for stats and were gods throughout the expansion, while others got none and were trash. Like so many poorly implemented features, blizzard decided to abandon them rather than rework them.
How exactly is the existing separation of communities improved by supplanting PvPers with PvEers who are only in it to get carried by their leet gear, and eliminating most of the PvP playerbase by pushing them out of the game?
You got what you wanted. Now you want even more special accommodations that will only make things worse.
Be careful what you ask for, because you may get it.
Yeah…so disgusted when I heard that.
Just give PvP gear a PvP stat back instead of this garbage PvE nonsense.
PvE players feeling required to play PvP fixed, PvP gear being the best gear in PvP also fixed.
There is no reason PvP gear has to just be “inferior PvE gear”. It’s just stupid system design and should not be considered.
Adding a PvP stat and balancing things will be harder to do than wod gear scaling. But I’m not holding my breath. I am confident that whatever they implement, it will help elite PvEers more than PvPers, and casuals who want to do randoms will see no benefit at all, or even lose something in the change.
I mainly PVP in this game. Not at any top or even medium level but it’s what I enjoy. WoD gearing was the best. I don’t get all these people saying the gear was useless in PVE. The only set I used was my conquest set and it was what, like 10-15 ILVL lower than the best PVE gear? I could still do any PVE stuff I wanted to do. Does anyone else remember differently and had problems PVEing in conquest gear? I really hope they go through with it.
I have PvPed in MOP, WOD, Legion, BFA, and now SL. To me they all had their pluses and minuses. I like SL because it has brought a lot of new blood into rated PVP and made my rated rewards useful in other aspects of the game.
WOD PVP gearing system was the best for a certain segment of the pvp population: the one who had a decent amount of time but no desire or ability to do rated pvp or high level PVE. He could do his time and just do causal random bgs and get conquest. It was a tedious process but lets be honest: it took no skill, just time.
Then, once he finally got his conquest gear he could dunk on non mythic geared PVE players. In essence he could have his cake and eat it too by getting a power advantage over noob/non mythic geared PVErs by doing the most casual pvp activity. Sure those guys are happy, but it will kill rated pvp because high level pvp rewards will be useless in PVE and those same pvp rewards would be obtainable in random bgs. No ones going to wait for a half hour in LFG looking for a flag carrier for a pink viscous war hippo mount. It will also discourage PVErs from playing in random bgs when the field is tilted against them. WOD pvp gearing will kill rated and it will decrease PVE participation in randoms.
I get that this current gearing system is painful for those players who have no desire/ability to do high rated pvp or pve. Your progression is stuck at 197 or so and the ilvl difference between me at 227 and u at 197 is harsh and probably unhealthy for the game. I wouldnt object to a system that squishes that advantage some to make it a more even playing field in PVP. But asking for WOD gearing is selfish: its just asking for a way for the casual PVPer to have an advantage over the undergeared PVEer. If you wanted gear to be a non-factor you would ask for legion templates or some variant of that.
I don’t think you’ve read it as they do not provide that level of detail in their filings.
I’m not sure I agree, versatility is essentially the “PvP stat” right now which is a flat damage and resistance bonus, however they added the 40% increase on trinkets as a bonus anyway which already convolutes it.
Giving PvP stats gives an easier dial to adjust, damage too high increase the defense value, damage too low increase the offensive value etc.
We’ve already seen that Blizzard can’t balance the current design as PvP is in one of the worst messes it has been for awhile.
Realistically we have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Oh absolutely, everyone who isn’t doing high end PvE will get screwed for sure.
Unless the scaling is massively in favour of PvP gear in PvP content which it never was in WoD (think best gear was 5 ilvls difference from mythic PvE gear, so we can assume similar for 2100+ rated duelist gear).
Definitely agree that this change just ruins the game for 90% to “fix it” for the other 10%. Meanwhile they could easily just fix it for everyone instead.
Yes.
10 characters
Yes, because “Battle for Azeroth” proved that this is a perfect system. It’s not like everyone had to run Mythic+ to even have a sliver of a chance in PvP…and let’s not even talk about the corruptions which were so broken that they nearly killed PvP. Source for this? Queue times. Even on Alliance the queue times sometimes reached several minutes, which is prove enough to show how much PvP suffered during BfA.
They were complete crap, because they offered absolute no customization in terms of stats. If we’re allowed to customize our ‘loadout’ it might work, but that’s too complicated because Blizzard believes that the average customer has the IQ of an ape.
Gear should be gear and it shouldn’t be divided into “pvp or pve”. I’m basically stating that as fact because it is a fact.
Maybe in WOD the best PVP gear was 10-15 ivls lower then the best PVE gear in PVE situations (I am just assuming your right). However things have changed since then -blizz has greatly inflated gearing. I mean mythic dungs and LFG raid starts at 187-194 ( I dont do PVE, just checking wow head, please tell me if I am wrong), normal raid is (200-207 per wow head). End gear is 226/233. So where you gonna put conquest gear obtainable via farming random bgs (an activity thats somewhere between LFG raid and world quests in difficulty)?
I can guarantee it wont be 10 ilvls below 226/233. We would be lucky if its 200-207 considering the ease of winning conquest in random bgs. That will make max level PVP gear mediocre in PVE situations.
During the last tier of WoD conquest gear had an itemlevel of 710, which made it slightly better than normal-raid-gear (705) and weaker than heroic (720) and mythic (735) gear. If we apply these levels to the current raid tier of Castle Nathria conquest gear would probably end up with a level of 208-210 making it similar to current Combatant-gear which is fair enough as it would upscale in any PvP-scenario (to probably around 220-225).
And I don’t see the problem with it. Having two different sets of gear were the norm before Legion. BfA proved that the whole “gear is gear” thing doesn’t work at all and I personally consider the 8.3 PvP-season as the absolut lowest point of Warcraft-PvP because of the whole corruption-crap.