Yes, because “Battle for Azeroth” proved that this is a perfect system. It’s not like everyone had to run Mythic+ to even have a sliver of a chance in PvP…and let’s not even talk about the corruptions which were so broken that they nearly killed PvP. Source for this? Queue times. Even on Alliance the queue times sometimes reached several minutes, which is prove enough to show how much PvP suffered during BfA.
They were complete crap, because they offered absolute no customization in terms of stats. If we’re allowed to customize our ‘loadout’ it might work, but that’s too complicated because Blizzard believes that the average customer has the IQ of an ape.
Maybe in WOD the best PVP gear was 10-15 ivls lower then the best PVE gear in PVE situations (I am just assuming your right). However things have changed since then -blizz has greatly inflated gearing. I mean mythic dungs and LFG raid starts at 187-194 ( I dont do PVE, just checking wow head, please tell me if I am wrong), normal raid is (200-207 per wow head). End gear is 226/233. So where you gonna put conquest gear obtainable via farming random bgs (an activity thats somewhere between LFG raid and world quests in difficulty)?
I can guarantee it wont be 10 ilvls below 226/233. We would be lucky if its 200-207 considering the ease of winning conquest in random bgs. That will make max level PVP gear mediocre in PVE situations.
During the last tier of WoD conquest gear had an itemlevel of 710, which made it slightly better than normal-raid-gear (705) and weaker than heroic (720) and mythic (735) gear. If we apply these levels to the current raid tier of Castle Nathria conquest gear would probably end up with a level of 208-210 making it similar to current Combatant-gear which is fair enough as it would upscale in any PvP-scenario (to probably around 220-225).
And I don’t see the problem with it. Having two different sets of gear were the norm before Legion. BfA proved that the whole “gear is gear” thing doesn’t work at all and I personally consider the 8.3 PvP-season as the absolut lowest point of Warcraft-PvP because of the whole corruption-crap.
Lets be real the only dogs that dont want the wod system are boosters and they are just afraid no one will buy their coaching sessions anymore if pvp gear becomes accessible to everyone.
I never said this. I think the opposite is true, which is what we have right here and now.
All these threads misrepresenting wod gear and its popularity are here so the devs can point and say, oh look. The playerbase doesn’t want wod gear. Let’s just keep bringing down the hammer on casuals and give a ginormous power gap to PvE elites, because that’s what the playerbase is insisting on.
More of the same, but surely it will reverse the decline in PvP participation. Or at least you’ll get that extra sweet stuff and really easy wins you deserve.
In Cata and Wotlk and TBC there was a badge gear vendor. You would get badges from doing heroics and be able to buy entry level raid gear including 2 tier pieces and trinkets. This upgraded every patch. Every reputation also sold epics at exalted. You also had Wintergrasp and Tol Barad
Then in MoP they tied all of the entry raid gear to exalted reputations, which meant you had to grind all of the reps to exalted to get any entry level epics for pve. This was incredibly hated, and blizzard then took that feedback that people hated the badge vendors, when in reality it was there stupid change to the badge vendor after 3 great expansions that was unpopular
While there may be some people with this mentality, what unrated pvpers want is to be on an equal footing in their own content, with rewards that give you the power to be fully competitive in their own content.
This is how it works everywhere else. Mythic raids have mythic enemies and reward mythic gear. LFR has LFR opponents and reward LFR gear. But unrated pvp has mythic and rated opponents but only rewards unrated gear. No one else has to do higher tiers of content to avoid getting erased in lower tiers.
So, either all gear in unrated pvp needs to be capped at maximum unrated pvp gear levels, or unrated pvp needs to reward rated gear. Nothing else is fair.
Also in WoD it took no time to earn an honor set, so any pve player who took pvp halfway seriously would quickly have a pvp set.
People did ask for templates or a scaled bg mode with no ilvl advantages. Pvpers want to rofl stomp people in casual bgs. Which is why the WoD system is a nice compromise. I would prefer a scaled casual bg so you can pick any item in shadowlands and be ok, and customize your stats/buld. Right now it’s do rated stuff or get stomped.
Right now it’s better to just play another game if you want to do casual pvp modes. Since you have to grind an entire other mode just to be decent in casual pvp.
part of it is the incredibly low sub numbers, but also as a percentage of players MoP/WoD has way more pvp players
not sure if you knew this but legion dropped rated pvp ladders to between 1/10th and 1/20th of what they were in WoD (getting worse as legion got older). Legion also had the lowest peak subs since vanilla. BfA barely beat Legion for peak subs and dropped even lower.
Shadowlands has hit a new peak, still much lower than WoD, but time will tell if the sub drops compare to Legion/BfA where subs were under 500k for large periods. (in BfA it was helped when classic was added)
yeah you are right about the bots, and there are tons of single function scripts nowadays as well just not as many and the full botting in pvp has pretty much died off entirely (but is still quite prevalent in world pve).
you are also right about them having much more subs in general which increases the amount of people playing in any activity. But percentage-wise, much much more people in pvp in MoP/WoD.
Through the roof isn’t correct. It is increased but there is still no bottom half of the ladders which is quite obvious.
the pvp will have a use in pve, it will just be worse than heroic/mythic gear and high M+ gear and high pve vault gear for pve.
I don’t even remember what PvP gearing was like in WoD.
I only remember that someone decided whirlwind would be our rage dump, and concluded that things have officially gone off the deep end in terms of terrible.
They can just make it so that rating raises base PvE level of gear, so that higher rated players can participate in PvE.
PvE to PvP right now is still gated. You need versatility in PvP, but rarely in PvE so you still need to grind separate set. WoD honor gear was much faster to farm than current honor gear, so PvE to PvP should become even easier.
It was seperated from Cata to WoD. Having two sets isn’t a bad thing, you can even make pre-made gear sets and just auto equip them from your inventory. We have so much bag space now that it’s not too much of an issue anymore.
It’s a good thing they separating them. The whole idea of raid gear being BiS for PvP or vice versa is silly.
That would be the best solution so it is still rewarding to arena players. But casuals can farm a conquest set in their casual pvp modes and not be roflstomped by people who participate in rated and raiding.
As soon as the ladders started to go sideways way worse than normal and rbgs started to become “popular” content (easiest path to 220+ atm) i knew blizzard would somehow either nerf the rbg cheese or do something like this tbh.
I personally liked it more due to the fact when gear is homogenized or “letting gear be gear” people will on average persue the path of least resistance and after acquiring fear go back to what they want (like pvpers pretty much forced to mythic plus in bfa and then go back to arena). There is a reason why there was like no rbg listings at times in bfa but now there are several in sl and it’s not because everybody suddenly thinks rbgs are fun.
This was my main reason for loving the WoD gearing system. Leaving the system as it is and simply slapping “pvp ilevel and pve ilevel” rules on it misses one of the main factors that made WoD gearing so good.
I already carry three sets of gear for my Paladin. Making that six sets for PVP doesn’t sound fun. In WoD, I got my PVP gear in a couple days, and I was “good enough” for any content I did.
But see… the problem is the PvE gearing system is awful. So Blizzard should try to improve the PvE gearing system instead of dismantling the really enjoyable PvP gearing system.
PvP=/=PvE and I am a strong advocate for Resilience as a PvP stat.
If you want to be godlike in PvP, then you must do PvP.
If you want to be godlike in PvE, then you must do PvE.
In BFA, to do PvP you had to do PvE.
In SL, to do PvE you have to do PvP. (more or less)
Bring back a PvP-only stat and it will solve all issues.