Yeah…so disgusted when I heard that.
Just give PvP gear a PvP stat back instead of this garbage PvE nonsense.
PvE players feeling required to play PvP fixed, PvP gear being the best gear in PvP also fixed.
There is no reason PvP gear has to just be “inferior PvE gear”. It’s just stupid system design and should not be considered.
Adding a PvP stat and balancing things will be harder to do than wod gear scaling. But I’m not holding my breath. I am confident that whatever they implement, it will help elite PvEers more than PvPers, and casuals who want to do randoms will see no benefit at all, or even lose something in the change.
I mainly PVP in this game. Not at any top or even medium level but it’s what I enjoy. WoD gearing was the best. I don’t get all these people saying the gear was useless in PVE. The only set I used was my conquest set and it was what, like 10-15 ILVL lower than the best PVE gear? I could still do any PVE stuff I wanted to do. Does anyone else remember differently and had problems PVEing in conquest gear? I really hope they go through with it.
I have PvPed in MOP, WOD, Legion, BFA, and now SL. To me they all had their pluses and minuses. I like SL because it has brought a lot of new blood into rated PVP and made my rated rewards useful in other aspects of the game.
WOD PVP gearing system was the best for a certain segment of the pvp population: the one who had a decent amount of time but no desire or ability to do rated pvp or high level PVE. He could do his time and just do causal random bgs and get conquest. It was a tedious process but lets be honest: it took no skill, just time.
Then, once he finally got his conquest gear he could dunk on non mythic geared PVE players. In essence he could have his cake and eat it too by getting a power advantage over noob/non mythic geared PVErs by doing the most casual pvp activity. Sure those guys are happy, but it will kill rated pvp because high level pvp rewards will be useless in PVE and those same pvp rewards would be obtainable in random bgs. No ones going to wait for a half hour in LFG looking for a flag carrier for a pink viscous war hippo mount. It will also discourage PVErs from playing in random bgs when the field is tilted against them. WOD pvp gearing will kill rated and it will decrease PVE participation in randoms.
I get that this current gearing system is painful for those players who have no desire/ability to do high rated pvp or pve. Your progression is stuck at 197 or so and the ilvl difference between me at 227 and u at 197 is harsh and probably unhealthy for the game. I wouldnt object to a system that squishes that advantage some to make it a more even playing field in PVP. But asking for WOD gearing is selfish: its just asking for a way for the casual PVPer to have an advantage over the undergeared PVEer. If you wanted gear to be a non-factor you would ask for legion templates or some variant of that.
I don’t think you’ve read it as they do not provide that level of detail in their filings.
I’m not sure I agree, versatility is essentially the “PvP stat” right now which is a flat damage and resistance bonus, however they added the 40% increase on trinkets as a bonus anyway which already convolutes it.
Giving PvP stats gives an easier dial to adjust, damage too high increase the defense value, damage too low increase the offensive value etc.
We’ve already seen that Blizzard can’t balance the current design as PvP is in one of the worst messes it has been for awhile.
Realistically we have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Oh absolutely, everyone who isn’t doing high end PvE will get screwed for sure.
Unless the scaling is massively in favour of PvP gear in PvP content which it never was in WoD (think best gear was 5 ilvls difference from mythic PvE gear, so we can assume similar for 2100+ rated duelist gear).
Definitely agree that this change just ruins the game for 90% to “fix it” for the other 10%. Meanwhile they could easily just fix it for everyone instead.
Yes.
10 characters
Yes, because “Battle for Azeroth” proved that this is a perfect system. It’s not like everyone had to run Mythic+ to even have a sliver of a chance in PvP…and let’s not even talk about the corruptions which were so broken that they nearly killed PvP. Source for this? Queue times. Even on Alliance the queue times sometimes reached several minutes, which is prove enough to show how much PvP suffered during BfA.
They were complete crap, because they offered absolute no customization in terms of stats. If we’re allowed to customize our ‘loadout’ it might work, but that’s too complicated because Blizzard believes that the average customer has the IQ of an ape.
Gear should be gear and it shouldn’t be divided into “pvp or pve”. I’m basically stating that as fact because it is a fact.
Maybe in WOD the best PVP gear was 10-15 ivls lower then the best PVE gear in PVE situations (I am just assuming your right). However things have changed since then -blizz has greatly inflated gearing. I mean mythic dungs and LFG raid starts at 187-194 ( I dont do PVE, just checking wow head, please tell me if I am wrong), normal raid is (200-207 per wow head). End gear is 226/233. So where you gonna put conquest gear obtainable via farming random bgs (an activity thats somewhere between LFG raid and world quests in difficulty)?
I can guarantee it wont be 10 ilvls below 226/233. We would be lucky if its 200-207 considering the ease of winning conquest in random bgs. That will make max level PVP gear mediocre in PVE situations.
During the last tier of WoD conquest gear had an itemlevel of 710, which made it slightly better than normal-raid-gear (705) and weaker than heroic (720) and mythic (735) gear. If we apply these levels to the current raid tier of Castle Nathria conquest gear would probably end up with a level of 208-210 making it similar to current Combatant-gear which is fair enough as it would upscale in any PvP-scenario (to probably around 220-225).
And I don’t see the problem with it. Having two different sets of gear were the norm before Legion. BfA proved that the whole “gear is gear” thing doesn’t work at all and I personally consider the 8.3 PvP-season as the absolut lowest point of Warcraft-PvP because of the whole corruption-crap.
Lets be real the only dogs that dont want the wod system are boosters and they are just afraid no one will buy their coaching sessions anymore if pvp gear becomes accessible to everyone.
You have me convinced.
I never said this. I think the opposite is true, which is what we have right here and now.
All these threads misrepresenting wod gear and its popularity are here so the devs can point and say, oh look. The playerbase doesn’t want wod gear. Let’s just keep bringing down the hammer on casuals and give a ginormous power gap to PvE elites, because that’s what the playerbase is insisting on.
More of the same, but surely it will reverse the decline in PvP participation. Or at least you’ll get that extra sweet stuff and really easy wins you deserve.
And PvE elites who are coasting on their gear.
It’s like the first tier of MoP all over again.
In Cata and Wotlk and TBC there was a badge gear vendor. You would get badges from doing heroics and be able to buy entry level raid gear including 2 tier pieces and trinkets. This upgraded every patch. Every reputation also sold epics at exalted. You also had Wintergrasp and Tol Barad
Then in MoP they tied all of the entry raid gear to exalted reputations, which meant you had to grind all of the reps to exalted to get any entry level epics for pve. This was incredibly hated, and blizzard then took that feedback that people hated the badge vendors, when in reality it was there stupid change to the badge vendor after 3 great expansions that was unpopular
I think you’re looking at it wrong.
While there may be some people with this mentality, what unrated pvpers want is to be on an equal footing in their own content, with rewards that give you the power to be fully competitive in their own content.
This is how it works everywhere else. Mythic raids have mythic enemies and reward mythic gear. LFR has LFR opponents and reward LFR gear. But unrated pvp has mythic and rated opponents but only rewards unrated gear. No one else has to do higher tiers of content to avoid getting erased in lower tiers.
So, either all gear in unrated pvp needs to be capped at maximum unrated pvp gear levels, or unrated pvp needs to reward rated gear. Nothing else is fair.
Also in WoD it took no time to earn an honor set, so any pve player who took pvp halfway seriously would quickly have a pvp set.
People did ask for templates or a scaled bg mode with no ilvl advantages. Pvpers want to rofl stomp people in casual bgs. Which is why the WoD system is a nice compromise. I would prefer a scaled casual bg so you can pick any item in shadowlands and be ok, and customize your stats/buld. Right now it’s do rated stuff or get stomped.
Right now it’s better to just play another game if you want to do casual pvp modes. Since you have to grind an entire other mode just to be decent in casual pvp.
buddy the ladders numbers are well documented
part of it is the incredibly low sub numbers, but also as a percentage of players MoP/WoD has way more pvp players
not sure if you knew this but legion dropped rated pvp ladders to between 1/10th and 1/20th of what they were in WoD (getting worse as legion got older). Legion also had the lowest peak subs since vanilla. BfA barely beat Legion for peak subs and dropped even lower.
Shadowlands has hit a new peak, still much lower than WoD, but time will tell if the sub drops compare to Legion/BfA where subs were under 500k for large periods. (in BfA it was helped when classic was added)
yeah you are right about the bots, and there are tons of single function scripts nowadays as well just not as many and the full botting in pvp has pretty much died off entirely (but is still quite prevalent in world pve).
you are also right about them having much more subs in general which increases the amount of people playing in any activity. But percentage-wise, much much more people in pvp in MoP/WoD.
Through the roof isn’t correct. It is increased but there is still no bottom half of the ladders which is quite obvious.
the pvp will have a use in pve, it will just be worse than heroic/mythic gear and high M+ gear and high pve vault gear for pve.
Look at their goals section. Even in the preamble they talk about their philosophy behind videogame design and profitability.
I don’t even remember what PvP gearing was like in WoD.
I only remember that someone decided whirlwind would be our rage dump, and concluded that things have officially gone off the deep end in terms of terrible.
WoD was truly terrible in every way.
They can just make it so that rating raises base PvE level of gear, so that higher rated players can participate in PvE.
PvE to PvP right now is still gated. You need versatility in PvP, but rarely in PvE so you still need to grind separate set. WoD honor gear was much faster to farm than current honor gear, so PvE to PvP should become even easier.