Why Varian is the Worst thing to ever happen to Warcraft

Lore Story Forum
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Varian Wrynn, popular Alliance character in some circles, hated by others. I am firmly in the Latter category. I made a thread recently about the terms Mary Sue and Creators pet and then i remembered Varian. I really, really hate Varian, moreso then Even Baine, Sylvanas, or Jaina. It’s funny, I actually don’t hate Anduin at all, yet his less Polarizing Father I despise.

Ok to not just say I really really hate Varian and explain why i hate Varian, it boils down to the fact he does more damage to the entire setting as a whole then anyone else and has no actual character arc despite rapidly shifting his opinions of things. Varian’s comicbook introduction was them literally just trying to make Alliance Thrall, and doing some big damage to the Horde by making it so they have a Slave trade (Despite Thrall being highly anti-slavery), and one of the first Retcons by Saying HE was the one to kill Onyxia. Even in Wrath Proper he sucked, being literally just Garrosh but Allianceside and helping propagate the LORDAERON VULT crowd (I could make another entire thread about the lasting problems of Wrathgate but I won’t for now).

Now we enter cataclysm and this is when an Annoying but Tolerable character starts to Damage the Faction he was meant to represent. In the Stories leading up to and during Cataclysm Varian started to undermine the other parts of the Alliance. He just overrules everything in the House of Nobles whenever they have a complaint, removing one of Stormwinds most interesting points, He completely reorganizes the Dwarven Government for some reason instead of letting the Dwarves be in charge of it, removing the Agency of an entire race, and then Wolfheart…

Everyone talks about how the night elves got super worfed in that story, but we just gonna ignore how Varian is the Savior, saving their butts from Garrosh despite it being in their own forest which they should be adamant in defending? Or how the Night Elven God responsible for the Worgen Curse chooses HIM to be his Champion instead of one of the two races actually connected to him. Oh and how he just forgoes the entire concept of a character arc by literally DRINKING (a Potion) HIS PROBLEMS AWAY!

Now we get into were Varian is the worst Mist of Pandaria. His entire reason to sending his military to Pandaria is to find his Son who went missing, and 3 (technically 4) alliance characters were made to look like Idiots in order to make him Look Better. Muradin and Falstad look like Jerks in the Dwarf Scenario, Being unwilling to defend their lands because they’re worried about the Dark irons betraying them so the WISE and MIGHTY Varian Wrynn takes the Dark Irons to cleanse the land of Trolls. Then there is Jaina after the Purge who Varian says “Ruined the negotiations with the Blood Elves to make them Join the Alliance” which served no Purpose and had only the most minute foreshadowing hordeside. Thats not how you make the Horde Sympathetic to the Alliance Blizzard, and despite your intentions to make Jaina look like a fool most players these days would say she was right.

Now we get into one of the worst parts of Varian. A Little Patience. In theory it would be alright, Varian shares some wisdom with Tyrande he aquired during his trials about not being so Hot-Headed. There are three MASSIVE Issues with this. 1. Varian didn’t overcome his Hot-Headedness by learning to be a better person, he literally just Drank a potion. 2. Tyrande is a 10,000 year old General who has lead far more campaign then Varian has, meaning she’s the more experienced one in this case. 3. EVERYONE EXCEPT HIM IS A COMPLETE IDIOT! Seriously, Tyrande Loses because she just blindly rushes at the enemy fortifications without any plan, the Pandaren remain neutral after this despite the fact the Horde literally just ransacked one of their temples to use as a fort, and the Orcs are super easily baited out of their fortress into an extremely obvious death trap. This didn’t make Varian look wise Blizzard, it made everyone else look STUPID. Which is how they make Varian Cool, or Wise, or Smart. By making everything around him worse to justify him being the best.

Finally we get to the ending of Mist, the final cutscene, Were Varian TRUIPHENTLY say they will have peace with Garrosh gone unless the Horde betrays them. Without negotiating and terms of surrender or war repercussions, and Only consulting Jaina who he does the opposite of what she tells him to. Despite Genn and Tyrande having very real gripes that need to be worked out. He just goes “Peace Now” and there is Peace.

He didn’t add anything to WoW, all he served to do was undermine the Authority, Integrity, and Intelligence of everyone around him in order to make him look better. I’m not even getting into how he failed as his intended role as a Warhawk, never escalating the conflict post Wrathgate and even being the one to say they should have Peace. It’s absurd what crap he was able to get away with. Sylvanas and Anduin may be poorly written creators pets, but they will never do as much damage to the setting as Varian Wrynn did.

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I think it is ironic (and hilarious) that so many die-hard Alliance fans who like Varian are basically showing appreciation for a cannibalized Thrall story, complete with creating his own ‘Horde’ by destroying the original Alliance.

Blizzard is so out of ideas that they just copied the Horde, its warchief, and painted them blue. And it worked. Varian Wrynn is an Orc in a Human body.

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Wow, when put this way … Anduin really isn’t that terrible. Kid sucks at war, constantly makes mistakes, everybody on the Alliance side but Jaina is kind of pissed at him by the end of BfA. Huh … I’ve never been one to hate Anduin, as I’ve always felt many of his problems as a character could be remedied if he were just the King of SW; and not shoe-horned into the High King position. He’s a fairly reasonable, bland “coming of age” story at his core.

However, when compared to Daddy-Wolfheart here … I mean … wow.

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I always liked the idea of Varian as a warrior king, but always feel a little… squicked when I read how his stories basically make the Horde and Alliance worse off. Especially with everything put together like this. Probably would have hated him intensely if I started playing and reading WoW sooner

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Welcome to what most people who vocally dislike Anduin think. He’d be a great side character in the overall Alliance story, the “Heart” of the party. Not the lead.

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Varian sucks but was redeemed because of a cool heroic sacrifice that made us repress his past transgressions.

It’s like a marvel movie.

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Never going to forgive him for Hush Tyrande!
I hope he burns in Ravendreth for it! At least he should.

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Can’t burn for eternity if you get disenchanted for +5 beastslaying on a spellcaster’s dagger.

He’s not even a epic item. lulz.

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This is wonderful in ways I cannot describe! :rofl:

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He was way more fun as his Wrath and Cata “King Chynn the Barbarian” persona. That type of character is exactly what the Alliance needs and what it frustratingly keeps getting denied.

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This is the thing that annoys me most, but it might have been salvageable. They could’ve had a questline where Thrall discovers and punishes the slavers with the help of the Horde PC. That could have been cool.

I actually miss those days. I enjoyed disliking him then. It really set the tone for the Alliance of the time–not a unified shining beacon of all that is good and holy, but a faction with feet of clay and their own share of hotheaded jerks alongside the good folk. And at the Icecrown tournament, I could roll my eyes and shake my head at both the faction leaders.

I’d be interested in reading that.

I’m really curious about what would have been in the Trials of the High King storyline that was cut. We all assume it would have been awful, but maybe it would have tied everything together better … somehow? (Or if it really was as awful as we think, I’m curious about exactly what sort of bullet we dodged!)

And that corresponded in time with the Alliance becoming the “Captain America” faction, as I recall. Makes me wonder if it was mandated by someone from on high (“Make him get over his problems so the Alliance can be in Lawful Good Overdrive”).

I’ve always thought that was done more for Anduin than for Varian, so there wouldn’t be two advocates for peace with the Horde, but maybe it’s a little of each.

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Most people disliked Varian until the Legion cinematic, and then the pre-patch. The general theme of comments on that one cinematic was “Where the hell has been THIS Varian the whole time?!”

It’s much like Garrosh, people lament about him now but at the time he was disliked immensely, which is why he was made into the villain in MoP.

This is a common theme for a lot of front and center lore characters. Players dislike them, aren’t afraid of saying so, they get villain batted or just die off somehow, and then a few years later the playerbase is like “wait… I miss them now”.

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I remember when Wrath was universally hated during its life and during Cataclysm.

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To be fair, I liked the direction that Garrosh seemed to be taking the Horde in Cata. I think part of the reason he was so reviled was because Thrall was still beloved at that time, and so the change of power - and direction that the Horde was going - was jarring to some. But at the end of the day, I think villain batting him was a mistake.

Having him indirectly be responsible for killing off Cairne also probably didn’t help much either.

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This is why I roll my eyes at people wanting to villain bat Jaina, or Tyrande, and thus kill her off. I have been plugged into this franchise’s lore for nearly two decades at this point, I’ve seen the eventual outcomes of either killing off a villain too soon, or villain batting and killing off a lore character because they’re a big meanie head and the players don’t like them.

Because as sure as the sun rises, an expansion or two later… people will be nostalgic for them. Maybe that speaks to a steady decline in Blizzard’s writing and players just wanting ‘the good old days’ back, annoying characters and all. Or maybe it speaks to many players lacking objectivity when it comes to characters writing.

Or maybe both.

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You know, I’ve never been big on Varian, even less so Anduin. But when framed like this, it’s just… awful. Completely awful.

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I didn’t read the whole thing, but I’m also not a fan of Varian; looking at the direction Garrosh was going in Cata, it seems like they simply move what they planned for Garrosh & made it Varian’s story because so many Horde didn’t like him. Sadly they did that & ruin Garrosh, and there’s no fixing the character.

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I think Varian’s story was interesting enough and different enough from Thrall’s. Sure they both had similarities(and this speaks to the fact the Alliance and Horde are more similarly then they would both like to admit).

Unlike say Thrall who’s story was about his ancestry, his connection with Teratha and what his people future should be. Varian’s story was focused on his love of his son, his connection with Broll and Valeera and his people current state of affaires and how to actually make the Alliance what it once was.

Onyxia was thematically linked to Varian, of course he should have gotten that kill. I’d also point out thanks to Chronicles various raids now have “official” winners. Hell, even back in Cata Deadmine official became an Alliance victory. Yes, we know people have attachments to raids and their respective history about it. I dont think it ultimately detracts from the experience. Hell, even during the anniversary Onyxia raid they just handwaved the lore that Varian killed her and just focused on the loot portion of it.

Again, another point to how both Alliance and Horde are two sides of the same coin. As for the Lordearon vults crowd, that was the point. Many in the Alliance want Lordearon back and even now at least are glad the Forsaken were kicked out of it(myself included)

He didnt overrule them. If anything he inspired them to put aside their petty issue for the greater good of the Alliance. If anything I enjoyed that particular part of his lore:

The crowd roared its approval from all directions. Even Baron Lescovar and his clump of nobles were standing and cheering now, swept up by the power and pride of their king’s vision.

He literally gave the reins of government to the dwarven clans the difference is he made is to so EVERY DWARF CLAN got a say, and not just Moira because of her heritage. Had Varian left the dwarves to their own devices there would have been a dwarven civil war.

And are you just going to ignore the fact it was both Genn and Malfurion who did help him at his lowest point? A point in his life where he nearly lost the love of his son? That is the entire point of the Alliance, to HELP EACH OTHER!

Wrong.

He’s known across all cultures. The orcs even have their own name for him: “Lo’Gosh.”

He did not drink his problem away no more than the Worgen suddenly lost all their rage just because they underwent the ritual. In fact, using the aforementioned short story, Varian was still prone to fits of sudden rage. (note the short happened AFTER Woldheart)

We saw what Moira did during the Dwarven leader short story, her antic even got Sky’ree, SKY’freaking ree killed. If anything not trusting Moira to suddenly take advantage of a bad situation is a natural reaction.

Also, it was Moira who offered to help, showing that SHE might have grown a little.

That was never done to make the Horde sympathetic to the Alliance, hell, unless a Horde player actually did the quest, most would not have know. The point wasn’t to make Jaina look like a “fool” either. But it was certain done to highlight how rushing into things without at least talking to others have their own dire consequences.

This was not about Varian supposely overcoming his hot-headedness(and even then he did lessen his tendency to do so). Unlike Tyrande, Varian was already tricked, TWICE, by Garrosh and that is the reason he was alot more cautious this time because he lost the 7th fleet and nearly the entire Alliance due to Garrosh being more clever then anyone ever guessed.

She was 1) underestimating Garrosh, unlike Varian, she actually thought Garrosh was just a brute. 2) she was blinded by her own anger. A trait that kept repeating itself even now.

Technically no, the pandarens did help us stop the Horde in the temple but I doubt they wanted a faction conflict(that was creating sha btw) to intensify. They did what was needed to stop an obvious aggressor but nothing more, just as you would expect from the pandarens.

Not ever orc commander has to be super smart. See Broken Front as proof of how easy some orcs can be roused to battle.

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(Disclaimer): Unit Exacitor is not sure what constitutes a, ‘Varian Fan,’ but he is no rabid die-hard chest-thumping type, so please take his following comments as unbiased as possible.

(Commentary): Was the biggest problem with the character. The foundation of any character is their introduction, and Varian (like most Alliance content during that time period) came in external materials most players never knew about. For the average player, Horde or Alliance, suddenly you had this dark, scarred human with a Blood Elf hairstyle in Stormwind who looked extremely out of place and was more of an Orc than any Orcs we’d met up to that point. No one knew why he was like this because so few ever read those comics, or felt compelled to look him up. This was the major failing of his narrative.

(Commentary): Considering the House of Nobles has not been shown to be either competent or without corruption, I don’t think this is a bad thing. If anything it makes him seem like a good king, bypassing useless red tape and getting things done, not letting these paid off, black-mailed, or otherwise corrupt nobles get in the way of what is best for the kingdom. It would have been good to see the House of Noble push back in some manner, but they’ve never had a strong presence in the story outside of being a plot device for the Stonemason Riots.

(Observation): The dwarves themselves were extremely unhappy with Moira’s rule, and if you read the novel, she is tyrannical in a way that Garrosh Hellscream would’ve approved. Keep in mind she was also holding the heir to the kingdom of Stormwind as hostage. She was spared, but the dwarves were powerless to do anything to curtail her power. Varian didn’t remove the agency of the dwarves; he restored it by establishing the Council of Three Hammers and making sure Moira did not have absolute power.

(Observation): Why not drink away the split in his soul? The worgen did in their starting zone. I feel like this is less something to hate Varian over, and more something to hate the writers over, but that’s my opinion on most of the OP’s reasons in a nutshell.

(Commentary): At least Varian was only able to defend Night Elf lands through the power of a deity the Night Elves acknowledge. How much worse if he did it by his own merits, rendering the Night Elves into damsels in distress? Let’s not forget how stupid and incompetent Garrosh made the Night Elves look by outsmarting them in lands they’d been guarding for 10,000+ years and launching a full scale invasion with a massive army, successfully no less.

(Analysis): Of course, there is no story for the Night Elves short of them achieving total victory, that will ever be accepted. If Varian hadn’t helped them and they had pushed the Horde out, then players would be complaining that the Alliance did nothing to help the Night Elves. Much like they do with the War of Thorns. This again leads back to poor writing decisions.

(Observation): The heir to the throne of the kingdom is missing. YES! You send people looking for the heir to your kingdom! Keep in mind the larger military presence of the Alliance was not called upon until after the Horde began taking an interest in that land as well.

(Observation): Considering the aforementioned tyrannical rule of Moira not even a few years back, can you blame them? Varian taking Moira and the Dark Irons to resolve the threat was the best way to mend bridges and bring the three clans closer. It needed outside intervention, although I suppose if anyone other than Varian did this you might be fine with it? If Tyrande did it, or Genn, or Jaina?

(Commentary): I mean, you hit the nail on the head. It served no purpose. Bad writing decisions.

(Commentary): I don’t think anything needs to be said about this. It speaks for itself.

(Observation): Again, this is a writing problem, not a Varian problem. This happens with every character Blizzard has take the spotlight! Look at Sylvanas for a moment. She 4D Chessmasters her way into these early victories, and then when it comes time for the Battle of Lordaeron, the Alliance just conveniently forgets she has the Blight? Genn has literally fought the Forsaken before in Gilneas, faced the Forsaken Blight, but he didn’t have any counter measures prepared? Any character given the spotlight makes every other character look brain damaged by comparison. This is a writing problem, not a problem endemic to those specific characters.

(Query): What was the alternative?

(Observation): Going into any faction conflict expansion, we know how it will end. They can’t destroy one faction or the other, nor are they going to update the game world to reflect changes in land ownership after they put so much effort into zones and questing.

(Commentary): Again, this is a writing flaw. We’re seeing it, again, right now with BFA, and Varian isn’t even around for it.

(Conclusion): Blame the writers, not the character, because they’re still doing everything you hate about Varian, but with other characters.

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Problem with Garrosh besides what they did to his story arc was that he was mean to the pc, just look at Nathanos now, people and their fragile egos…

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