Classic raids are harder than what most people will be willing to admit, but I would still say some of the classic raids would give a run to non-mythic raid content. Heroic raids since Mythic was added I still consider it easy.
But thatâs the point.
There is basically no difference between M+12 at 630, and M0 at 430. Itâs just artificially making the easy content harder by removing gear/stats.
And they split pvp from it, delves are capped to heroic. Because the point of endgame content is not to have one making other irrelevant. Which is why thereâs a certain balance right now. My preference is certainly not realistic nowadays unless they decide to split m+ from raids which I doubt. But that doesnât mean that part of what Iâm saying isnât true, raids should still feel rewarding which is how the current compromise work. You can get full myth track gear by doing M+ in a season but it will be slightly faster if you do raids and raids have some of the unique cantrips items that you might want.
Crests are still very problematic as there are no way to catchup crests in raids.
M+ is already rewarded it doesnât need more moreover when the more it gets the less raids become relevant in current compromise.
Classic had âpatchwerkâ fights who had one mechanic
If this is true (and I very strongly doubt it is, because Mythic raiders are always doing things they donât need to do because muh optimizationz), this is terrible design. Mythic Raids should be tuned for the ilevel dropped by the heroic raid. Thatâs how itâs been since Normal/Heroic were the raid modesâŠ
Again, if true (and Iâm more inclined to believe this than the above), bad design.
Retail has many fights in heroic that might as well be patchwerk, moreover patchwerk would probably kill tons of retail tanks when current tanking design is seen as too hard. If your tank has died on Edna (stonevault first boss) he would have died on Patchwerk.
Patchwerk would be harder than the 3 first bosses of mythic this tier.
This would make mythic raid a joke like Emerald nightmare. This is why they donât do this.
Because the highest reward level of m+ is incredibly farmable compared to a mythic raid. Assuming you arenât doing a 10 vastly undergeared you will have it on farm within 1-4 runs of that key. In a raid you will spend possibly hundreds of pulls on bosses after the first 4 and most likely you wonât be getting anything from those bosses either AND the boss has a chance to drop nothing good. And the kicker is that after you kill these 100+ pull bosses itâs time to start extending so you wonât see another chance at that loot for months, or possibly never again depending on how fast of a CE guild you are. That is the equivalent of getting a good job sticker for doing 10x the work, and then people will have the gall to somehow tell you how OP mythic raid loot is when m+ rewards are insanely easy to get if you just play the game.
The fix for this issue is relatively easy however. Just give mythic raiders a token for killing their bosses once they are on the harder ones in the tier. They get 1 piece of guaranteed loot from the boss they kill this way and it makes perfect sense when raiders HAVE to extend to actually beat the raid.
Maybe you misread what I suggested, which was less for M+, not more. 
A lockout after 8 successfully timed runs, means no more loot for that track from M+ until next weekâs reset, just like raid. Thatâs less than now, because itâs infinitely farmable for both gear and crests, but the gear is only Heroic atm, so no big deal (would only apply if they add up to 8 chances at myth-track loot to some high keystone level).
Maybe youâre saying that Raid drops should work best in raid and M+ drops should work best in M+ just like PvP gear gets an ilvl boost in Arena/BG?
Initially, you had to raid to obtain a 4-piece set because the Catalyst didnât exist. Raiding was also necessary for key items like weapons and trinkets, which remains partially true even nowâthough this season has improved somewhat in that regard. To mitigate the gap, they increased the item level of loot from final raid bosses.
In fairness, this interaction wasnât one-sided. During Legion, raiders also needed to engage with Mythic+ due to the titanforging system.
This issue has always been part of the game, even if the specific mechanics change from expansion to expansion. It will likely persist until Blizzard fully separates gear progression into distinct tracks: raid-only, Mythic±only, delve-only, and open-world-only. Ideally, this would give casual players something meaningful to work toward.
My preferred solution would involve a vendor system where you could purchase gear although crafting and drops would still work. And than allow you to upgrade pieces along five independent tracks.
For example:
If you raid, youâd improve your gear for raid content.
If you focus on world quests, your gear would grow more powerful in the open world.
If you engage with the raid, M+ and delves than the same item would be good in all of those areas according to the amount you put into each track.
It would be hilarious for a dedicated casual player with maxed-out world quest gear out-damaging a raid logger on a world boss. That kind of system would reward commitment across all playstyles without forcing players into content they donât enjoy.
Might have read too fast sorry thereâs a lot of posts to answer (sorry if I skip someone)
Why? Because Mythic Raiders choose to ruin their raiding experience by going to get better gear from other sources? SLAYP to me.
Because the content is meant to be challenging even if you get more gear. You canât blame players for playing your game optimally as this is the intended way you made it.
If they do not want that gear to matter then it should be split off.
there is no raid team on this planet that is killing M Ansurek without doing their m+.
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Dude really wants to defend classic raiding when the selling point of Classic was being simple and low floor for skill requirement
Classic tbc, wotlk and cata all have decent bosses. Also you are the one that brought the idea of difficulty, I talked about the model/experience.
Iâm pretty sure that most people that didnât kill Queen Ansurek on heroic in the first month would have much trouble killing some of those classic bosses.
Min-max tryhards will always feel âforcedâ to do other content they donât âenjoyâ if it gives them a 0.01% edge compared to skipping said content. Perhaps thatâs vocal and strongly opinionated group on the forums, but as a sample of the entire playerbase, I have to think these forums donât represent a majority opinion on anything because weâre a heavily biased sample.
There is only one reason I do any content and that is to have fun . I am not the type that has to be rewarded for doing even the slightest little thing. I would still raid if nothing dropped as long as it was fun (havenât found a raid yet that wasnât fun)
Having said that I believe that raid gear should be unique. Have abilities and bonus stats that only apply when in that raid. Same for M+ gear and PvP and world content. Gear should give you advantages in the content it drops from
No. Impossible. Completely destroys your own argument if true.
I always have and always will blame players for making decisions and then complaining about the results of those decisions. You choose to make the game easier by seeking other sources of gear, you donât then get to cry about how easy it makes the game.
Doesnât make any sense to me, feel free to explain your logic.
If you design a game you design it knowing people will play it, youâre telling me donât play the game if you donât like it. Thatâs not really an argument to me. I like playing a well designed game, why should I want to play a worse game.