But it wouldn’t. It’s way more work and then it opens up the demand for every class to get a 4th spec. The best solution is to delete melee survival and try to forget it ever existed.
Just going to disagree with you. People have asked for 4th specs long before they reworked it. It’ll happen no matter what they do.
BuT wHaT AbOuT tHe MSV PlAyErS wHo DoN’t Do RaIdS oR rAtEd PvP?
(I’m aware that they are included in your data, as your data includes anyone who has any engagement with Covenants, which is literally all level 60 players and a large portion of 51-60 alts, just mocking the typical response to data like this)
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Figuratively.
Why would it be way more work to add that 4th option rather than flat out deleting MSV and then add RSV back in?
And also, as for demands, we passed that with MoP when they gave Druids a 4th spec.
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I know it will probably be ignored and hopefully I am not the only one who did it , but I did put a question into the Blizzcon Q&A thread asking if there is a possibility in the future for a 4th hunter spec.
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I did something similar a few days ago, so you’re not alone at least.
I also asked a similar question.
Giving druids a 4th spec was a stop gap fix to a problem they couldn’t solve - having a single spec needing to perform 2 different roles and have both those roles be balanced.
They did it because they had to. They don’t have to give hunters a 4th spec, and they won’t.
They didn’t have to give Druids a 4th spec. They could’ve just deleted one of the two…
The point is that they didn’t. At that time, they decided that more options were better than fewer options. Why should it be different later down the line?
Just for comparison, with Druids, they decided that the best fix was to split the two so that both could be properly developed and realised, so that more players could fully enjoy their preferred thematic focus.
With Hunters?
Apparently the best option was to flat out delete one unique playstyle just to introduce one that had no prior connection to the class(beyond minor situational elements).
They also said that they would incorporate RSV into MM. Which they did not. Instead they designed MM with the main theme it held and it just happened to hold a few talent choices which vaguely referenced what once was the old RSV.
The thing is, I’m glad that they did not actually try to merge MM with RSV. It would’ve been nothing but a giant mess. But does that mean that they should just forget about RSV? No. As with Druids, they should opt for the best solution so that more rather than fewer players can enjoy their preferred playstyle and the thematic approach that comes with.
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Not comparable. Not at all. Feral adequately filled both the tank and DPS role for many expansions, not always top but always popular. Furthermore, since the addition of the 4th spec feral dps popularity has declined and feral is often lumped with MSV as a meme. The druid example is not a beacon of hope for 4th speccers to uphold.
The fact of how it involved 2 different combat roles doesn’t really matter that much. The actual important part is that there were 2 unique mechanical and visual themes combined into 1 spec. 2 themes that did not work well together and did so even less as time went on due to the devs and their intentions to add further depth and distinguishing features to each one.
It doesn’t matter what roles each theme/fantasy portrays. It only matters whether they play well together as one, or not.
It would be the same thing in the case of RSV, if attempts are made at merging it with any other hunter spec. They just won’t fit well together, nor would there be any room left to adequately develop either/add more depth.
Ferals current overall representation is more than 3 times higher than that of MSV. It currently sits quite a bit away from the bottom.
The big difference between Feral and MSV?
Feral when they get the design to a decent state and it isn’t underperforming by a lot, it does see a fair number of players playing it.
MSV? It has had 2 different designs and had multiple occasions where it has performed well, yet it has almost never managed to break free from the bottom of the rep lists.
So, no…
I wouldn’t say that Feral is in the same boat as MSV.
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Neither would I, nor did I. I said it is referred to as a meme like SV. It is unpopular, though not to the extent that MSV is. That’s a really low bar to set.
Feral is unpopular among melee DPS specs for the same reason SV was unpopular. It brings no utility that a boomkin doesn’t bring better. Feral retains some players because there are druid players who dont want to be a caster, a tank, nor a healer, leaving feral as the only non magic DPS option. MSV will not have that niche in the hunter class.
Is Shandris Feathermoon a UDK? I cant help but notice she looks a lot like a hunter who clings tightly to her melee weapon.
No, she’s a sentinel. A night elf warrior.
But I’m not sure what any of that has to do with actual gameplay.
Thrall is a both an enhancement and elemental shaman, but we don’t have playable shamans like that either for obvious reasons.
Perhaps to a certain degree, but no, still not in the same way as MSV.
You sometimes hear players talk about Feral doing low dps or that it has a select few problems with it’s core design, but compare that to MSV which, since it became a thing, has had frequent mentions in various places of “not being a spec anymore”, etc. etc.
Note that I’m not the one saying these things, nor am I inclined to argue about said statements. This is just as for a comparison of the “status” for each spec, and the perception amongst parts of the playerbase.
Well, MSV’s niche is the melee-aspect. And it does retain some players no matter current tuning levels etc. But like you said, those aren’t anywhere close to that of Feral.
Anyway…
This has strayed from the original point. Like I said, what matters is not what roles are contained within, nor performance or anything of the sorts. With this discussion, what matters is the focus on varying playstyles and mechanical themes/designs.
Whether you personally think that the introduction of the 4th Druid spec was a success or not(based on partial community perception or performance levels etc) doesn’t really matter. You have your opinion, sure, but objectively, they opted for giving players more choices rather than fewer ones in a game with the main goal of providing players with unique and meaningful choices to invest in.
That is, by definition, a success.
And frankly, despite the numbers, it’s actually the same thing with MSV. But the fact of the matter is that they opted for replacing something that was even more of a niche than another melee-spec would be.
What they did(how it was done), cast a massive shadow over the act of giving those who wanted said melee-option.
Or just play a ranged spec like bm at melee range.
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She wears mail, and has a bow on her back. She does not wield a glaive. She wields a short blade.
Sentinel is clearly not a class, and doesnt determine her abilities (like tracking and camouflage). But sure… there is no direct translation for NPCs, but telling someone who wants to play a hunter who can wield melee weapons to live out that fantasy through UDK is like telling someone who wanted to play a pandaren brewmaster prior to MoP to just roll a tauren and take alchemy.
They said they wanted a melee class with a pet. UDK is that.
Shandris doesn’t have a pet.
I dont think they wanted melee as a spec, as much as they wanted to make a strong visual distinction between MM and SV. The solution probably seemed to be perfect in the think tank. Having a spear on the back was a lost aesthetic and sorely missed by a fair number of hunter fans. They could bring melee back to the class AND visually distinguish sv and mm hunters artifact appearances with one sledgehammer stroke.
What would I have done in Legion? Rogues have a dual wield artifact. Fury warriors have a dual wield artifact. Prot warriors have two artifacts. I would have made melee weapons a part of the hunter class artifact experience. Dw axes and a gun for BM, DW swords and a bow for MM and Crossbow and Spear for SV.
I would have reintroduced wingclip and raptorstrike baseline, and maybe aspect of the monkey. SV would have remained relatively the same as it was pre revamp, with maybe some oldschool SV defensive bonuses.
Going into BfA, I would have let everyone keep melee weapons. Oh no! We’d have to maintain a melee weapon as a stat stick! Get over it. Theres a crap ton of specs and classes that need to maintain more than one weapon. You dont want to maintain 3 weps? Go 2h. The melee weapon doesnt do enough? Make wingclip immobilize instead of slow, have it off the gcd so you can macro rs and wc.