Why Shadowlands' plot moves on the Idiot Ball

Lore Story Forum
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First, there are good parts of the plot of Shadowlands. There’s even a couple of retcons I like (such as Denathrius’ connection to the Nathrezim - I have mixed feelings about the “Nathrezim playing 5d chess with everyone else” retcon). There’s also characters I wish had a bigger role (like Devos).

Having said that, one problem I have with Shadowlands is that the plot of this expansion often relies on normally competent characters suddenly becoming incompetent to keep the plot going. While that’s not always the case, here are most of the questions I have about Shadowlands’ plot, and instead of giving each one their own thread I put them here;

  1. Why didn’t Devos bring Uther with her to Archon Kyrestia and let her touch Uther’s wound as proof?
  2. Why did it take so little for Devos the “Paragon of Loyalty” to turn traitor?
  3. Why didn’t Devos rebel by just bringing Uther to Kyrestia and showing his scar?
  4. Why would Devos ally with the Jailer and the Maw when it was the Path’s failure to contain them that made her rebel against it?
  5. If the Path is really this weak, why didn’t something go wrong sooner?
  6. Why didn’t the Jailer kill the Primus/Runecarver after he got the information/memories he needed?
  7. Why did Margrave Akarek let Maldraxxus’ House of Eyes fall if he had enough advance warning to save Draka?
  8. Why did the Eternal Ones trust Denathrius after they learned he was using the Nathrezim to meddle with other cosmic forces? (the Primus knew, which is why Maldraxxus didn’t aid Revendreth against the Naaru’s retaliation)
  9. Why does the Jailer disregard the PCs after getting so worked up about us being able to activate “a relic of the First Ones”?
  10. Since the Winter Queen can teleport around Ardenweald and keep a close eye on it, how did it take her so long to learn a living mortal and Maw Walker had arrived in Ardenweald?
  11. Why did General Draven try to kill the player character in that Revendreth stagecoach rather than just explain what Denathrius was really doing?
  12. Why didn’t Denathrius recall the Nathrezim to Revendreth sooner when the player characters started thwarting his plans?
  13. How did Sylvanas miss all the parallels between the Jailer and the Lich King?
  14. Why didn’t Elune check on the state of the Shadowlands more often given how she sent so many of her “favored children” there and had a beloved sister ruling one of its afterlives? (Thank you, Orcus, for inspiring this question)
  15. Why didn’t Prince Ren’thal put more guards than two Stoneborn at Dawnkeep to prevent Denathrius and Remornia from being freed?
  16. Why did the two Stoneborn guards at Dawnkeep leave their posts?
  17. Why didn’t Jaina teleport us through the Jailer’s barrier to stop Jailer-controlled Anduin from taking Ardenweald’s sigil?
  18. Why didn’t Sylvanas start making contingency plans against the Jailer when she started to doubt him?
  19. Why did Bolvar insist that taking the Primus’ sigil to the Runecarver was a good idea when he knew the Jailer could see everything that happened in Torghast and knew the Jailer wanted the sigils for his masterplan?
  20. Why did Sylvanas turn against the Jailer only after hearing the word “serve” despite hearing it before from others without reacting like that?
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You could add: Why didn’t Elune think to ask why there was an anima drought in the Shadowlands before letting all those night elves burn to death and end up in the Maw? It’s not like people just stopped dying up until then.

Short answer to all the above: the story needs it to happen.

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Good point. I will add a point about Elune. Thank you.

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Didn’t the recent patch have a line where the Primus outright states that the Jailer will never get his Sigil if he kills him?

He wasn’t really worked up. He was MUCH more interested in Anduin. His reaction to us was more like…

She kinda had other things on her mind. When your entire house is burning down, someone coming in through the back door to tell you that they’ve been trying to reach you about your car’s extended warranty isn’t really going to be your top priority.

Wasn’t this the point of the quest when you’re there to see Denathrius and talk to him and what not? As in, you were his ally?

Sheer arrogance? He probably didn’t think it was something he couldn’t handle.

Well, her plane is Life, not death, so she probably figured her sister would take good care of her favored children. Granted her favored children were also immortal so, its not like a lot were going to the Shadowlands all at once until the burning of Teldrassil.

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Bleh. Screw Blizzard and screw WoW, I hope it all burns. Just like Teldrassil.

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She did/was about too. But the Archon being so devote to “the Path” instantly casted her out. This can be seen in the Afterlives: Bastion video.

Archon says: “You will abandon this course.”

She had doubts about losing her own memories, Uther was just the final straw.

Again, she tried, but was shut down. Afterlives: Bastion

She became “upset” with Bastion and their “flawed path.” Suddenly the Jailers “the First One’s plans are flawed” seemed to make much more sense.

Memory lost/obedient souls usually being recruited to Bastion.

Bastion had souls continuously reject the path, which is why the Foresworn existed. However, a majority of the Soul deemed worthy to go to Bastion were those who simply “followed orders” well. (Paladins, soldiers, etc…)

Strategy for Draka to get away and eventually take up a more important mantle. Survival of Maldraxxus > one house.

Denathrius started to meddle in other forces, got caught and was given no aid by the Primus.

Because of this, he “pretended” to banish the Nathrezim, which the other Pantheon of Death thought was enough to welcome him back in.

Basically, Denathrius made a “mistake” but worked to fix it. (Or so they thought)

He’s been planning this for Eons, to him, it matters not what we do. Nothing we can do now can stop him from achieving his goals… which are… ummmm… stay tuned for next week’s episode of Marvel’s Amazing Sigil-Man.

Busy trying to not let the whole realm die.

He didn’t trust you enough to risk his cover?

She “knew” but the ends justified the means. It wasn’t until the “All will serve… the one true king…” that she realized he was using her.

She had her suspicions as seen with the conformation with Anduin, but it wasn’t made 100% clear until then.

Abusive Boyfriend. :frowning:

You mean Slyvanas, Dreadlords, Kyrian, and a number of other creatures can freely go between other realms of cosmic forces and Elune didn’t send someone of her own?..

That’s what we call an oopsie daisy.

It makes no sense and is bad story telling.

Thought the Light would be enough, forces are low due to the whole Maw situation. Also didn’t realize how infiltrated the Dreadlords were.

Terrible Ventyr Demon Hunters if you ask me.

Hey you! Check out that noise!

Death Magic beats Arcane Magic in the realm of Death.

She does, that’s her redemption arch we have to wait for Patch 9.3.5 to find out! :slight_smile:

The lingering Death Magic within his 12 iq brain clouded his judgement :slight_smile:

He promised to rewrite everything, not make everyone serve. The Jailer simply pulled a sneaky on her.

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I more hope it continues to suffer. I mean it has suffered far more than Azeroth… Unironically.

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No, let it burn and let it end. Put the players and the people who work there out of their emotional and creative misery. Put the franchise and the company to an end and create something better from its ashes.
Like a theme park.

Edit: #EndBlizzard

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Some of these answers do explain it, others just raise more questions. I appreciate you sharing these. I’d like to discuss these with you further. These are my take on your answers, in order;

  1. Why didn’t Devos just bring Uther with her for that first meeting considering it was so “urgent” to stop “an agent of the Maw loose on a mortal world”?
  2. While that would explain it, when did Devos express doubts about her own memory loss? iirc her only complaints apart from “the Maw” were she thought Uther being in Bastion might be a mistake and saying if his memories had been erased, they wouldn’t have known about this (except there was also the literal wound on his soul)
  3. This question meant “Why didn’t Devos rebel by just bringing Uther to Kyrestia and showing him to the Archon… instead of ascending him prematurely, dropping Arthas into the Maw and then allying with the Jailer?”
  4. That somewhat makes sense, though it’s a leap of logic for Devos to go from “The Path is flawed since agents of the Maw can escape it” to “Let’s become an agent of the Maw.”
  5. Maybe. I’m not sure when the Forsworn started appearing. I thought they were a recent phenomenon.
  6. The “Maldraxxus survival > House of Eyes” survival part makes sense, but why not save more than Draka? He could’ve faked his own death and worked with the Krexus.
  7. Good answer. That does make sense for why Denathrius was still trusted.
  8. lol, that is a plot hole. Good answer, still
  9. Busy saving Ardenweald somewhat explains the Winter Queen’s disregard for a living mortal in the afterlife.
  10. How was Draven undercover? His opposition to Denathrius was known, especially with that pro-Denathrius venthyr trash-talking Draven. He couldn’t just grab us out of the stagecoach and then drop it?
  11. I’m surprised Sylvanas would work with someone so similar to the Lich King given what a trauma button that is for her. It does seem like a toxic relationship; I feel you :frowning:
  12. I agree completely. That Elune part was a hash.
  13. Makes sense that using the Light and having a staffing shortage explained more about Denathrius seeming poorly guarded.
  14. lol, those Stoneborn guards grabbed the idiot ball
  15. Does Death > Arcane really apply? Jaina could still teleport in the Maw itself
  16. lol, good answer about Sylvanas
  17. And good answer about Bolvar’s “genius” decision with the Primus’ rune.
  18. Sylvanas was okay with “rewrite reality and kill everyone who resists” but not serving? Classic edgelord.
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She did, in the Afterlives: Bastion cinematic, she states the wounds on his chest show a Mourneblade had escaped to the Mortal Plane, resulting in the “Agent of the Maw” (Arthas).

The Archon and everyone else, just shut her down. Basically saying that it’s impossible, nothing can escape the Maw, and also slightly leaning on the idea of “It has to all be part of “the plan.””

Everything happens for a reason, and the path is set.

Again, in that cinematic, Devos questions the Path. She is warned to not let the Archon hear of this talk by the other Paragon. It’s basically heresy.

While she is talking to Thenios, she states Uther is “broken” and then we see basically a time skip / flash forward.

Since time works differently in the Shadowlands, we don’t know how long Uther was really there for before claiming Arthas’ soul.

This seems more implied than anything.

From the Devos encounter in Spires of Ascension:

Devos says: No. It was a mortal who exposed the folly of your edicts.

Devos says: As I peered into Uther’s memories, what I saw shook me to the core.

Devos says: But you refused to see the truth. That the path is flawed. That we serve a lie.

Devos says: And so, I listened to the Jailer’s words. I learned of the great injustice you and the others thrust upon him… and upon us all.

Devos says: He seeks to free us from the prison we have built for ourselves. And for that, he has earned my loyalty.

Kyrestia the Firstborne says: And I mourn your betrayal.

Oh I was thinking of another quest.

He said in the cinematic, this mortal will not become another puppet of the Master.

He basically said he’d rather kill us then let us serve Denathrius’ will…

Can’t blame him.

In the Anduin + Slyvanas Trailer, she lets it slip that “…we can’t even choose who we…” and then she snaps out of it.

This is probably referring to Nathanos, and she feels like she failed him at the battle of Silvermoon. (Or all the Blood Elves, maybe her brother even) (This is to be seen)

The path is set and there’s nothing we can do about it, we can’t even choose who we can save or not…

The Jailer purposed a clean slate, a fresh rewrite of the system/universe/whatever.

If he did that, maybe in this new reality, she’d have a life with Nathanos…

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I mean Devos should have brought Uther with her to that meeting with the Archon, but he wasn’t there. If he was there, the Archon could have seen and touched Uther’s wound for herself, providing evidence to back up Devos’ words. Why didn’t Devos just bring Uther to the Archon or bring the Archon to Uther the first time?

For example; Devos brings Uther to the Archon. The Archon sees Uther’s soul wound for herself. The Archon touches Uther’s soul wound, seeing what Devos saw. Done.

Thenios told Devos not to let the Archon hear this talk in response to Devos suggesting Uther being sent to Bastion was a mistake. imo if it was implied to be about Devos’ own memories too, it wasn’t implied well.

As for Draven, while that makes sense, I wonder why he didn’t bother trying to make his case to us rather than writing us off as a puppet of Denathrius. The Accuser gave us a chance.

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to be fair (to be fairrrrr)… at the time, Devos was the Paragon of Loyalty. For the Archon to cast aside her doubts and concerns so easily must have been a slap in the face.

Yes, she could have brought Uther to the meeting with the Archon, but shouldn’t her word as a Paragon be enough?

The Archon is to blame here, as she should have been more open to the situation.

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You have a point about how and why Devos’ word should have been trusted, and the Archon did drop the ball. The Paragon of Loyalty openly criticizing the thing she’s famous for supporting to her boss’ face, and in front of a crowd should have set alarm bells off about the Path or Devos herself.

Having said that, it’s still bad storytelling that Devos chose a lengthy and dangerous rebellion relying on trusting a sworn enemy - the Jailer - and never tried the more simple solution of just sharing her proof with the Archon. This would make sense if Devos was characterized as fickle, selfishly short-sighted or an idiot, but she was someone who got made Paragon of Loyalty.

Also, I think you have good points about Draven and Sylvanas.

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I always thought that was weird myself, especially since the attempted murder attempt makes us more inclined to work with Denathrius since, at that point in time, his agents were the friendlies.

Though the rebellion was currently on the losing side in that matter, Renathal had been beaten and tossed into the Maw, along side others like the The Curator, the Accuser was held up in the Halls of Atonement, and other figures like Theotar were stuck within the Ember Ward. So it’s very like that Draven was just acting on desperation over anything else. After all the legendary hero who breached the Maw itself joining Denathrius is fantastic PR that the Sire would have definitely used.

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He is also the offspring of the Stonewright who is filled with Wrath. Wrath makes one even more irrational than Pride.

The Accuser’s Pride wasn’t Vanity(as that had been tortured out) but Confidence and Pleasure which permits Humility(opposite of Vanity)! She is Superbia(Exalted Hubris/Insolence) without Vanagloria(boastfulness), Arrogance(Stubbornness) and Vanity!

The Accuser is the purest form of Superbia! Exalted to the point of Insolence!

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From Archimondes defeat at Hyjal to the present, the night elves are no longer immortal. Nozdormu’s blessing is what granted them immortality following the WotA (which was used to kill Archimonde, along with Alexestraszas, Yseras and Malygos’ blessings along with thousands of wisps). Nozzy never blessed Teldressil at the end of Stormrage (in fact none of the aspects blessed the World Tree when it was seeded). Mainly because he was too busy trying to play time travel chess with his future self… and losing. And he never bothered doing it after he returned in Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects.

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This “favored children” part came from the cinematic where Elune and the Winter Queen talk.

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I did say, “were,” immortal.

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My mistake. Made that post late at night

Okay? Thanks for stating the obvious. Couldn’t find it without your help captain.

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I mean a lot of it has been. At least in the small picture the Devs have provided for us.

  1. Why didn’t the Pantheon of Death project themselves into Orbios when they first noticed the drought, before it got bad?
    • Everyother quest had us in a conference at the top of Orbios…
  1. Why didn’t Elune send an agent to the Shadowlands to check on the status of Ardenweald?
    • Kyrians, Dreadlords, Narru (supposedly her creation), Helya, Val’kyr, Slyvanas, etc all move freely between worlds/spaces. Does Elune not have her own powerful cosmic cross creatures?
    • Nevermind the “link” shared between Ardenweald and the Garden of Life…
  1. Why did we take the Sigil to the Runecurver instead of… just asking him about it? (as you posted above)
  1. Why are Horde players working to save Anduin, lol?
  1. Why does Slyvanas allow KT to exist? Let alone be her “guard” within the Sanctum of Domination.
  1. Why doesn’t anyone tell the MAW WALKER about the history behind Zovaal???
    • We are literally defying all that as ever been known about the Shadowlands, a mortal in the plane of Death and yet we aren’t trusted?
  1. Why is our Pantheon not contacted about a villain trying to “reshape the ORDER” of the cosmos???
    • I think Aman’thul would be pretty pissed about that…
  1. Why didn’t all the covenants aid us in attacking Denathrius?
  1. Is all the Anima we are collecting for our respected covenants even suppose to be going there? lol
    • Are we taking souls meant for Ardenweald and throwing them in our Kyrian Vaults cause wwhatever… anima be anima!
  1. What was the big red ball that stopped the Arbiter? Was that “part” of Argus’ soul? Why was it able to disable the Artbiter in the first place?
  1. Why doesn’t the Primus sit us down for an hour and tell us all about the First Ones and Zovaal’s master plan…
  1. Why did Elune remove Tyrande’s choice to kill Slyvanas mid cinematic, then proceed to say it is “Tyrande’s choice” to seek vengeance or renewal.
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