I agree, I’ve been semi-hardcore for almost forever and the rewards in this expansion has felt bad, coupled with a lore-weak raid, and busted M+.
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I got KSM and i’m 4/10M. Stuff happened and now im done with Mythic but my point still stand. Despite that most of my gear on my 221 Hunter is from PvP. Would be higher but got to 2050 CR in 3s week 3 then got dumped for a Warrior by my teamates (if you know anything about the current PvP meta it makes complete sense).
After all that BS i rerolled to my Rsham and got it to ilvl 212 in 3 weeks doing only PvP and now i’m clearing Heroic CN weekly for giggles with a small guild even though i don’t really need anything from it thanks to PvP bare a shield and a couple trinkets.
If i didn’t PvP i prolly would had quit the game instead because getting to ilvl 212 using the PvE systems is months of grinding and at this stage you prolly can’t even do the grind cause you need both IO and gear equal or above what drops in both raids and M+ to even get into the content.
I just don’t see how you can defend it when someone lile me who has access to a workaround still feel its dumb.
And yeah everyone has a covenant they dislike i think. Personally its Bastion.
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Ok so in an effort to address them as youve said them, ill just give you my humble opinion. With respect to the above, if people are apt to quit en masse, isnt that also reducing the lifespan of content? I mean content isnt content if a large swath of the demographic it was designed for isn’t actually wanting to see it.
Not negated any more quickly than the gear we get now will be, nor do i see it as substantially more difficult to offset (which ill be frank, i have no idea what this even means).
Asking sincerely…how?
Yea. I get that, i was just being piccune honestly. I mean suggesting something is SECOND “best”, somewhat dimishes the meaning of “best”, but not really important.
You say that with authority, yet, i’d need a bit more convincing that it wasn’t just plain ole RNG luck.
True. But i havent found anyone either asking WoW to be FFXIV
I feel a big problem has always been M+ loot. The fact that it has no restrictions or lockout means you have to artificially depress it’s value. But then it becomes pointless to run, so they add the weekly chest which gives high level gear but is throttled.
I admit I like the valor points concept. Farm M+ to get an item, and M+ for points to upgrade it. This is a nice concept overall if properly balanced. Higher keys mean more valor points and higher base item so less required. So higher keys lead to gearing up faster, but easier runs can get there eventually. I like that system.
If they had it in place, I wouldn’t have a chest for it anymore. Or at this point at least let the chest only give the same ilvl you would have gotten by clearing.
I find the “extreme” RNG loot to be detrimental to the game. You get a scenario like we have currently where your upgrades come only from the vault. Because you can’t get it outside the vault. Only in the vault. Vault vault vault.
You become reliant on it for upgrades. I feel the same way about the “weekly” quests too when they drop things that are relevant. Not so much now, but again next tier that heroic raid loot from 4 mythics will be useful again. And that’s pretty much the same problem.
I don’t mind the vault so much when it comes to the raid items. You are getting the same stuff you would in a raid. It’s just M+ where this is different and you’re getting stuff 10+ ilvls higher.
RNG for loot should end at the boss/dungeon drop. The more extreme RNG sources that can yield upgrades eventually become the only path with upgrades and you either get lucky or you don’t. And that’s a garbage system in my view.
Blizzard turned WoW into a slot machine.
Ion wants RNG sadly, not FFXIV’s system that is truly awesome. He thinks that random loot is a core part of an MMO without a second way to get a specified item, as shown when bonus loot was removed so targeting was gone.
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Clearly the op doesn’t remember trying to get raid gear in vanilla. While the current system isn’t perfect, it’s significantly better than its roots.
I enjoyed the covenant gear more than any other gear I’ve gotten.
Most gear is a + some random number, but I’ve always loved gear with a purpose, and set bonuses provide that.
But for those that desperately need that +1-10 more points in haste, mastery or another 5 points of primary stat, I can understand the frustration. The only thing that would make it worse is if the stat bonuses were random so you couldn’t target a specific…oh, wait…
Clearly the op doesn’t remember trying to get raid gear in vanilla. While the current system isn’t perfect, it’s significantly better than its roots.
I didn’t play Vanilla but I played Classic up until the release of BWL and ended up quitting because of the gameplay itself, not the loot. I felt like I was wasting time gearing up a character that I didn’t enjoy playing (I was playing a mage in MC which equates to spamming frostbolt for hours). I’m not saying Classic had a better loot system but at least you had master looter with a loot council/DKP system so you typically got rewarded based on how much effort you put into the game.
Gear not only offers a personal sense of progression on your character, it serves as the tool to overcome content challenges. It’s what helps you run m+ faster, kill those harder raid bosses, and eases the general need to play “perfect” to overcome mechanics. The faster that gear goes out, the faster content fails challenge to the player and the sooner it offers no rewards.
Blizzards primary goal as the developer is to ensure player pacing. Content needs to be consumed (overcome) within a reasonable time-frame. Too quickly, players are bored and leave the game. Too slow, players can’t see the end content. In order to maintain proper player pacing in content, when gear is predictably handed out, increasing the players power each week: Content difficulty has to be increased to offset the extra player power.
Blizzard has to tune the 1st half of a raid for the lowest expected ilvl group, and the last half for the ilvl thats rewarded from the first half. For example: Heroic CN should be tuned to expect ~200 avg. ilvl for the 1st half of the raid, and 207-210 for the second half of the raid. Now when we see mythic+ gear and PvP gear being viable we need to increase that last boss to ~215 ilvl tuning.
So, because of the extra gearing paths that speed people up, blizzard has to tune the final bosses to be extremely tight and difficult. Lest there is no challenge in them. Too many people, having too much gear, too quickly – forces the designers to make content extremely difficult. [Which in turn, pushes out more casual players].
*** for the average player *** (And you might imagine – tuning for WF raiders, CE raiders, AoTC raiders, and Friends/family raiders… it’s diverse group of players that all need to have appropriate challenge. Gear pacing makes that easier.)
WRT to raids dropping more gear: There was a hard limit – that limit is now being exceeded. No RNG involved.
You might not be, but I do peruse around here quite a bit to waste time… plenty of people are.
The reason pvp is not as big is because it is boring. At really high levels of pvp it is just as scripted as pve.
While I agree with most of what you said, I feel like the difficulty of mythic content is the biggest factor (or the raid in general). The final boss kill numbers for heroic Denathrius are similar to how they were for N’zoth, but we’re talking about first raid end boss of an expansion vs. last. Progression in mythic is slow and tedious - you are very unlikely to progress more than one boss a week, if that. Each fight has an extremely punishing mechanic that requires (near) perfect play on the part of every player, and even one mess-up and it’s time to restart. Sun King is a particularly frustrating example of this - if even one person messes up their rotation on the shields, entire raid wipes. In most logged kills (4 DPS shields, 2 heal shields) the entire fight comes down to just that - 6 x 6 (36) seconds that determine the entire fight, and everything else is basically optional.
I haven’t raided much in BFA so I’m refreshed, but I know our guild is experiencing high trial turnover in recruiting, recruitment forums are FULL of guilds constantly looking for more members, and so are realm forums. Raids should be hard, but not so hard that it’s leading to this much burnout. The kill numbers on mythic seem very low for where in the release we are…
Am I the only one that sees the argument about people gearing too fast and quitting and thinks it’s all a bunch of malarkey?
A dominant conversation amongst guildies, friends and the like is how they just can’t be bothered to gear alts.
If I could consistently work towards good gear over the span of 6-8 weeks by putting in effort and seeing a positive feedback loop I’d just run multiple alts so I could challenge myself with different roles and play styles.
As it stands I think I’m just going to pack it in until 9.1 and play super casually, if at all.
Cutting Edge isn’t semi-hardcore. AOTC is.
While I agree with most of what you said, I feel like the difficulty of mythic content is the biggest factor (or the raid in general).
I think you’re right. My guild is 6/10M and it has started to become a bit of slog and people have started quitting the game. A lot of players don’t like the prospect of progressing on difficult bosses like Sludgefist and SLG when their guild is struggling to down easier ones like Council or whatever it may be. Add this to the lack of character progression and all the other issues with Shadowlands it’s no wonder people are getting demotivated and burnt out. It’s hard to rationalize putting so much effort into the game when you’re getting so little out of it.
Cutting Edge isn’t semi-hardcore. AOTC is.
I disagree but what does it matter?
I think the problem with M+ right now is that it doesn’t provide gear that is sufficient to keep progressing (except through the great vault).
There aren’t many players that are completing 15s with 207 gear. That means you either are funneled into other content or you are waiting for months to gear up through the great vault.
dumbasses like you made blizz remove titanforging and now loot is garbage and boring rng makes the game feel alive static ilvls is just horrible and i hope they see how many ppl hate it and just go back to some type of forging becouse i prefer to run 20 dungeons and maybe get an upgrade titanforge then run 20 dungeons now and never se one becouse the ilvl cap and less loot
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That makes you hardcore, a semi-hardcore guild will get AoTC early enough and than attempt mythic without ever making it to CE level. The hardcore players get CE and than leave, they done what they wanted, they either just leave and/or unsub and than come back for X.2 and go again.
The semi hardcore players are actually the ones that stick around until the end, and by the end I mean the very end when this game finally dies or gets to the point that an update is not really much more than a new raid and constantly evolving iLVL increments.
You see semi hardcore players get AOTC, we than attempt mythic and see how far we can go, on the side we do some PVP, we run some M+ and try get our KSM before the season ends, do some collecting, xmog farming, alts and anything else there is in the game to keep us entertained, but never solely push into CE territory, therefore we always have some reason to stick around without needing to endlessly farm gear until our CE pops.
Like have a look at the world first and guilds like that, the world first raid leader is running alts with pug groups for lols. Preach’s guild fell over after their CE and I am sure there are many others doing the same, push hard, get what you want, than stop for the time.
Semi hardcore players pretty much never leave until their life changes need them to, like a new job, marriage, kids. Otherwise we are here for the long run.
I think you are just burnt out. You are 6/10 on Mythic Raiding and got KSM already. There’s not much for you to do. Upgrades at your ilevel would be VERY SLOW which I think is normal.
Just have a break then come back and play.
While I don’t really raid anymore, couldn’t agree more with this post. I’ve got a couple characters running higher keys and the RNG involved with gearing is pure pain.
Valor system won’t help when you can’t get a weapon after 35 dungeons.
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I still don’t know, who (except for streamers) asked for a reduction of drops though. I remember everyone complaining about titanforging and I remember everyone being unhappy with the m+ chest being pure rng. I still don’t really get what complaints got them to reduce loot in general. Or mythic raiders complaining about that as well?
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