As a casual who only runs mythic plus with guild mates I truly appreciate your hate OP. ![:roll_eyes:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/roll_eyes.png?v=6" ":roll_eyes:")
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But that is my whole point.
The low keys-certainly under +10, even under +5 and yes even a +2 are very, very unforgiving for players at the appropriate gear level for these instances.
It is really crazy how hard they have tuned these low dungeons.
When you think about it, you could probably tie this whole argument back to the relative destruction of guilds and social groups in this game. Wonât go off on a tangent about modern society, but I think the reason people complain about logs and io has less to do with actual competence and more about desiring the social aspects of the game while maintaining a form of introversion.
Thatâs why they wonât go off and form their own groups, because that forces you to not only lead but have some modicum of communication originate from you to make it work. And, therefore, thatâs why itâs frustrating when you want to do content but you are forcing yourself to rely on others to arrange it. Itâs a strange contradictory mindset that permeates a lot of things nowadays. If guilds were more prominent, I feel like players would be able to either find a guild that suits their needs or be in a large enough guild where there are a diversity of groups in it. Then you could form groups based on common interest and some form of acquaintance rather than being random player #2563 whoâs only visible traits are their progression. The downfall of guild structure is also a contradictory thing though, because itâs a player-made problem with a solution that can be implemented by the players. I donât think itâs Blizzardâs fault that weâve become less social, but itâs definitely easier to be less social now.
Just my opinion though. It may not be the root cause, but it at least exacerbates the problem.
Non-elite players arenât getting left behind at all. They just refuse to play with other non-elite players. Thatâs the point of scaling difficulty. It is content for the vast majority of players. The problem is that the vast majority of players only want to play with the small minority of good players.
If you disagree please tell me exactly which difficulty level is the cutoff for including everyone and where only elites are allowed to play and everyone else only gets the illusion of it being content for them.
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I disagree completely.
E.g. A +2 SotS Deepsea Ritualist wonât wipe your group even if you let all the casts go off. (Though it wonât be fun for your healer) A +6 will wipe you if you donât interrupt properly.
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Itâs not really about being smart or an idiot. Doing high keys requires skill that only comes with experience. Put Elon Musk in a +10 and I guarantee you heâll be useless there because he doesnât know how to play the game.
Edit: Also, how do you quote people? I donât see the option for it anywhere.
let it exist and eat them alive.hey bro your 1600 io score isnt higher then this other 1601 higher score equals more experience.(even tho i can pay 200k gold and get m+ carries to improve my score.),lmao
And people who are masochists will go through extreme mental gymnastics to justify why people who are not willing to be masochists in a game that is cheap entertainment are doing life wrong.
Not at all like the real world.
Thatâs the thing. People who get called âelitistâ usually have a very good idea of their actual level of skill.
This is the first xpac I have played seriously since cata. Because of my job for years I couldnât commit to hard-core raiding anymore. No I can again but I know that my skill set is not sufficient yet for mythic raiding (mother and taloc donât count) yet. I wouldnât try and force my way into mythic raiding yet because I know Iâm not good enough yet. When 10 keys get easier for me to handle from a mechanics perspective (keeping track of them and not getting flustered by the sheer quantity that is constantly happening) Iâll start looking at more serious raiding.
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There are a few ways.
- Highlight a section of text and a Quote button should appear.
If the above doesnât seem to be working for you.
- In the composer (Box you type up your posts) there is a button to âQuote whole postâ. It will full quote whatever post # indicated by the bar on the side. You can then trim this if you want but that is kinda roundabout.
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Why are you trying to force masochists to let you play with them? If you really think people who are serious about M+ are masochists, why are you mad that you arent playing with them?
No one is stopping you from doing M+ if you want to. Start your own group, do low keys where people dont check IO, find a guild and run with them. There are a ton of ways to get involved. There is only one for not getting involved: You donât want to. That is on you and no one else.
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RaiderIO doesnât need to exist because really it should exist in game rather than out of game via the MoP system of proving grounds updated and brought into the game so someone can go Bronze > Silver > Gold > Endless and then once you can do Endless improve your score the better you go the higher you rank the better you look/preform whilst using Bronze, Silver and Gold to teach/help players learn to properly play their spec/role.
I understand that RaiderIO also shows highest level of X dungeon completed as well but I believe Blizzard should also implement this in game not just the armory which I believe they said was a 8.1 feature?
Ah, neat. Thanks!
âThere must always be⌠thunderclap âŚa Raider,io Kingâ
[quote=âAliandrin-fizzcrank, post:16, topic:23857, full:trueâ]
Only if there are other people who will do the content with you. If there arenât, yes, youâre locked out of content. Yes, by other players.
Itâs not on the players to accept anyone but it is on Blizz to make a game the people who pay for it can play, too. And no, WQs are not âplayingâ - theyâre pointless busy work.[/quote]
There is content for everyone. Heroic and M0 dungeons both exist. I personally think M0 should be queueable once M+ comes out as it is trivialized by gear pretty quickly.
As for M+, it is impossible to make it both accessible and challenging. Challenging content by its nature is excluding.
Every single person doing M+ started out with a +2. All of them. Every single one of them that does higher keys got there by building upon smaller keys over and over again. There is nothing to prevent you or anyone else from doing so. The number of groups using IO or other methods to fill low keys is small or nonexistent. Start small and work your way up. It isnât nearly as impossible as many claim.
You are absolutely right! If only Blizzard made it so that each player could make their own groups so they donât have to deal with the âelitismâ of other playersâŚoh wait!
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Raider IO isnât needed to pug, but I would highly suggest it. Itâs so easy now to get gear that without having to do much you can get your character to a decent item level (360+). Without IO people decide whether to add someone to the group based on their item level because they think it means something. They see someone with a 360 item level and figure theyâre doing mid M+ or some normal/heroic raiding, but that isnât always the case. Item level isnât a reliable factor anymore in determining skill. Raider IO however will give you plenty of information about the toon that a person is asking to join your group with. Thereâs the IO score, but the addon will give you brief information about their raiding and M+ history so when determining who to let in you can have more confidence that the people you are including into your group have done the content before and know what they are doing.
The only person entitled to be in a group is the person who created the group. Everyone else only has the right to apply to be in said group. To the leader you are a stranger and they know nothing about you so they can only work with the information that is available to them. When they look at your toonâs history and they donât see much evidence that you have done the content before why would they add you to the group? Theyâre looking to complete the dungeon on time and theyâre going to pick people that can show they can do that.
There isnât anything stopping people from creating their own groups. If youâre tired of all the âelitesâ rejecting you then make your own group. The only one stopping you from doing that is you. You can also join a guild and run with them or make a group out of your friends. If you know someone that runs M+ more than you do then make a mythic 0 group with them and have them run you through the dungeon. The mechanics that are present in mythic 0 are the same thatâs in a +10 or +20 only they hit harder and are more punishing if you mess them up.
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Well there should be. Proving Grounds should teach me the fights. I canât be the group leader without knowing the fights, and I canât get into someone elseâs group without knowing the fights.
Go run 0s. That is why they exist. You do not need experience to do those and learn from them. No one is stopping you from playing the game but yourself.
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Then make them hard. Make them do what they should have done all along and test skill.
I had the worst letdown in my life when I cleared gold on the first try. I even got Endless on my tank, on the second try.
I thought, âOh my god! Maybe Iâm not actually bad! Maybe the people abusing me are full of it.â
Nope. Iâm still bad.
But Proving Grounds is worse. It should teach the fights.
And if I have to do the real stuff a thousand times to get it down pat, to the point I can be in a group, then I will.