I like your idea. If that’s what it turns out to be - even if there’s no villains other than Yrel’s group - that might make it worth the price of admission. I can take fanaticism stories. I play Warhammer which has fanaticism from all sides. But there’s a clear ideas on who is good and who is bad and why, and it portrays all sides. Just not how Blizzard is doing it here.
Seriously, I think they need to put you on the narrative to help fix their lore.
They need actual professionals, not keyboard warriors pointing out the obvious flaws in the narrative. Thanks though.
FWIW, I never thought the existence of the Scarlet Crusade cast doubt on the benevolence of the Light (back in the early days of WoW, when the Light was benevolent). They just seemed to be pretty clear analogues to real-world fanatics who twisted their faith into something destructive.
I suppose you could say the fact that they have actual magic powers might complicate things, but to me, that just proved that Light could be twisted, not that it was inherently “morally grey.”
My only problem is I don’t believe they’ll do the “Light Is Not Good” trope better than they already did with the Scarlets.
They were a very human feeling evil. More than a few religious sects set out with noble goals but descended into paranoia, sectarian violence and mass grave digging. Hell having now lived through a plague as a guy with sinus issues I can personally attest to how quickly a cough can collapse trust. Take that and make it a sentient virus being spread by forces known for their completely ruthless tactics and trickery and I completely believe even the best among us would turn into a wild eyed paranoid pretty quickly.
Suffice to say the Scarlets were a relatable evil. And I just have not found anything Blizz does with it’s cosmic storytelling to be relatable or interesting. A bunch of off their rocker zealots wanting to exterminate the infidels is understandable. The machinations of a glowing wind chime on the otherhand is not.
Light = Ego
Not “evil,” just flawed. In the venthyr campaign the Light is described as “prideful” I think if a cosmic power were to ever be judged by the Arbitor I think the Light may go to Revendreth. It does offer maybe some insight into the First Ones.
Also, Naaru seem to have a strict idea around purity. They refused to let the Naaru in Revendreth go home because she had absorbed too much Death energy, she was not a “pure” Light being anymore. The Naaru are puritanical.
Honestly, as is becoming a pattern for me, I suspect a clash of views behind the scenes here: LOTR fans verus Babylon 5 fans. The LOTR fans wanted some good-versus-evil in the world (though not in AvH)—and make no mistake, there is plenty of solid and nuanced storytelling possible with that framework. The Babylon 5 fans wanted Vorlons versus Shadows.
The Babylon 5 fans seem to have outlasted the LOTR fans and are now remaking the world to suit their preferences.
The Light and Void are kind of like the Light and Dark side of the Force in Star Wars, imo. They both seem to be fueled by emotion, Acts of compassion, justice, and selflessness is the Light. Action of Selfishness, hatred and vengeance is the Dark.
But nothing is quite so black and white. Love, for example, has the capacity to be selfish and selfless. “I want to spend the rest of my life with you” can be attachment, infatuation, but it can also be a commitment, a giving of oneself to someone else.
Anakin fell to the Dark Side not because of love but because he was afraid to lose the one he loved. That is attachment, and while it is selfish, is it wrong to feel that way? And that opens up a lot of possibilities for good character driven storytelling.
especially since the Light and Void being a moralizing force in the World of Warcraft, just like Star Wars, it opens the door for a lot of philosophical story telling.
Because while several civilizations base their morality on the virtues of the Holy Light, is it moral at all that the Light and the Void manipulate mortals into being foot soldiers in their war for dominance over the cosmos? Once again, I see Star Wars Parallels, and to quote probably the best written character in all of the Star Wars fandom.
“I hate the Force, I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would use us to achieve some measure of balance, when countless lives are lost.” -Kreia
“This is what you have wrought. Countless murderers, slayers, assassins’, born of war that has, as always, taught the wrong lesson.” -Kreia
That last line is particularly applicable to Warcraft. A word so rife with war, and NEVER has the lessons of those wars been learned. The same mistakes being made over and over and over again, and I don’t believe those lessons have yet been learned even in BFA. And what I love about that last quote is that it is Kreia criticizing the player character. WE are as much at fault as everyone else. We are the Murderers, slayers and assassins born of war.
“You have not learned a thing a have taught - and for all that I have said, you never learned to listen.” -Kreia
And it is all because we make ourselves slaves to ideology. Jedi, Sith, Horde, Alliance, Light, Void, Democrat, Republican.
“It is to surrender yourself, to make yourself a slave to a teaching or belief that makes it so belief will always rule you. - If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single idea.” -Kreia
Then perhaps, finally, warcraft can tell a fulfilling story that isn’t just the PC kicking butt and major lore characters kill stealing the big bad. It can be a story where the PC learns something about themselves and achieves something more than just completing a raid.
“There is no truth in the Force… But there is truth in you…” - Kreia
This seems more like you have an agenda, and are reaching for reasons to bolster it.
I do not know what all those other things you mention have to do with WoW. This is the WoW lore forums. Diablo 1 had Warriors. So does WoW. Diablo has Paladins. So does WoW. Warriors and Paladins are also in various games and genres of fantasy and sci fi. There are a lot of themes that many franchises share.
But more to the point - I never played Starcraft of Diablo 3. Those things you mentioned mean nothing to me because I play WoW and I am here discussing WoW.
You seem to miss the fact that some people play WoW who will not play those games.
Maybe you are tired of it because you play every video game in the universe and you are jaded. I don’t play many video games. WoW is the only Blizzard game I play consistently since Diablo 2 in the early aughts.
It just seems a ludicrous argument to say: “they did it in another video game already” when not everyone plays every video game that you do. I certainly never played Starcraft or Diablo 3.
Almost as if in war the light is the executioner and the void is the one pointing their finger.
It’s been a thing since Moorcock, in particular the Corum and Elric novels
„Despairingly, sometimes, I seek the comfort of a benign god, Shaarilla. My mind goes out, lying awake at night, searching through black barrenness for something—anything—which will take me to it, warm me, protect me, tell me that there is order in the chaotic tumble of the universe; that it is consistent, this precision of the planets, not simply a brief, bright spark of sanity in an eternity of malevolent anarchy.“ — Michael Moorcock
Source: https://quotepark.com/authors/michael-moorcock/?o=new&page=3
„Only Law could create such perfection and, Elric thought, such perfection defeated progress. That the twin forces complemented one another was now plainer than ever before, and for either to gain complete ascendancy over the other meant entropy or stagnation for the cosmos. Even though Law might dominate the Earth, Chaos must be present, and vice versa.“ — Michael Moorcock
Source: https://quotepark.com/authors/michael-moorcock/?o=new&page=4
But Entropy at it’s absolute is the ultimate form of Stagnation…
You are missing the point… at their extremes both Law and Chaos are hostile to life. Lw freezes everything so no growth or change is possible, and ultimate Chaos prevents anything form having a consistent form as everything just dissolves in it.
With no other momentum a fart may as well be a gust of fresh air.
Trying to paint the Light as a negative force in itself is dumb. The whole planets being crystallized thing Alleria saw. It’s more interesting as an ambient energy that can be used for different ends, both good and bad.
Void trying to be good or have good associated with it is dumb also. Void elves have to have incredible concentration in order to avoid succumbing to void whispers. It has never once been shown to be a force amenable to anything in the same way that Light has been associated with healing, warmth, happiness, etc.
What about Alleria’s vision of the Light stalking the cosmos “like a predator?”
That seems like pretty negative associations to me. If that “healing, warmth and happiness” is like Xera’s gaslighting, than I can see the Light not being as wholesome as it has been seen in the past. Manipulation, gaslighting, forceful conversion, ethnic cleanising of the Mag’har…brainwashing.
Maybe the Light has a good side, but paired with Order, it has the capacity to be Authoritarian, and that should never be overlooked or downplayed.
I’m sure Alleria’s Void-given visions of the Light’s role in the cosmos are accurate.
they are an exaggeration, but still. even if the Light lands somewhere in the middle of these two polar opposite projections then it’s still morally grey.
We do not need to take Alleria’s word for it.
Let’s roll that beautiful bean footage :
Morally grey is boring.
I am really not sure what the fascination is but when you have opposing forces/sides of something, I can’t really connect if neither have any real codes that I can identify with. Personally though I do find the Light in WoW to be pretty damn good. In any instance where the Light is used for evil such as the Scarlet Crusade I easily chuck up to misusing the Light.
I understand where one can say a force of Order can be authoritative (such as is possible with White Mana in MTG) however Light is not Order, Arcane is. Light is Holy, divine magic that’s more spiritual and in tune with the birth of life and creation rather than ruling in my opinion.
Also screw Illidan, seriously how many people has he enslaved, and we’re supposed to feel bad for him?
In that specific moment? yes. What was being done to him was against his will. That’s not “punishment” or atonement for his crimes. He doesn’t “deserve it.” Converting him aganst his will is abhorent, regardless on who it’s done to.