I explicitly chose a non weakaura boss for my example.
I hear ya I just think its a knock on effect of raiding have a “weak aura night” to get everyone on the same page. There are good bosses but a lot of the road blocks these days are not those bosses.
This is true, but I think so much is lost from that shift in target audience even without those bosses. The difference between what a raid guild can work on across the span of 3-4 nights and what a PuG is going to be willing to sit infront of without complaining or imploding is massive.
I’ve been doing mythic 4/8 pugs the past couple weeks. They usually take about an hour or two and then stop as soon as Rashanan is dead (Maybe clear trash for BoEs maybe not). You could give those groups another 5+ hours and Kyveza wouldn’t really have a scratch. Not because it’s an especially complex mythic boss, but because it requires players to play / think in a way that just isn’t conducive to a PuG environment.
1 Like
I actually think Kyzeza is a fun boss… would kind of cap her for difficulty in a raid though. I more mean bosses like the garbage fight blood twister
I mean yes less said about brood the better, but ultimately we’ve had encounters that test player’s abilities to coordinate on a similar level before that haven’t been quite so unfun to progress for XYZ reason.
It’s less the “weakaura boss” ness of Ovinax that is the problem for PuGs, and more it being a boss that is designed around coordination as a necessity with no way to brute force.
Silken Court is similar in what it tests and yet is significantly more fun, no weakauras required there. It’s just a big dance, it’s barely got a dps requirement either.
PuGs can’t do dance fights, and blizzard’s compromise to that is just to not put dance fights in the first half of the raid.
Kyveza is a great boss especially on Mythic. Not the hardest thing in the world but it definitely requires a level of gradual performance optimisation to progress that isn’t pug friendly.
Most of the time yeah, but they have done so in the past. Although the most recent I can think of is Soulrender from Sanctum. Who can be either the 4th or 5th boss of the raid. But he is still in the first half either way.
EDIT: Actually the most recent is Lord Incendius from the Blackrock Depths timewalking raid. And he is the 3rd boss.
Guild members can’t do dance fights. Had a boomkin that couldn’t do the Dance Macabre mechanic, even during mythic prog. But he was an officer so we were stuck with his two left feet 
I want to portal right to the loot parts.
Could probably try to explain in more details but Mythic raiding is an experience not just a difficulty, this is why it’s made a certain way. Most of the game can be done with pugs and target pugs, this is a difficulty designed for guilds.
By accessible do you just mean easier?
Well… you have to do the ‘work’… you must do the work. It can’t be handed to you? I don’t do mythic anything. So?.. But I think what I sad was the truth.
Mythic is perfectly accessible for any group capable of doing it.
Is it more for guilds or more for min/maxing?
To me, Mythic is that set of difficulty where the meta must be maintained. Sim, talents, gear is all pre-planned to maximize the most damage/healing/mitigation to the point where your character is a carbon copy of any other similar character.
It’s boring. I will take Normal/Heroic where variety doesn’t suck.
min/maxing is nothing bad and every one does some of it to some point. Did you equip your best piece of gear? Maybe you looked for a guide to see how to play better or are using a dps meter to see if you’re getting better.
What people do in that content is the necessary to beat that content and that can happen regardless of the difficulty but the bar is still set decently high when it comes to mythic raiding.
If you prefer other difficulties you’re welcome to them that’s why they exist and why I’ll never want them to get rid of them, because there’s a crowd for each of them.
I’m not saying it’s bad.
It’s just the lack of variety at Mythic is what turns people off.
There’s less stacking in mythic raiding nowadays than back in earlier expansions. With raid buffs you’re pretty much forced into that diversity. And there are sometime choices you can make, sure there are not as much viable choices as some other content but I would still say it’s doing pretty good.
Right now for example as a blood dk both hero talents are viable and there are multiple options in your talent tree, I think that’s pretty good and that even in mythic raiding.
1 Like
Don’t fall for the mythic allure my friend, unless you are willing to stop having fun and turn the game into a job while some annoying pos screams clear comms constantly in discord. I think it’s about as accessible as it can be.
Mythic is purely for flexing your epeen, it is not a fun process. Be thankful we can pug even 2 bosses.
Because they sell tokens. It is always the same answer. Why do people keep asking questions they know the answer to?
1 Like
Hrm, sorry, I didn’t intend to come off as adversarial. I guess I just don’t really see how it’s an “accessibility” issue based on your posts.
In a manner and forgive me if I’m oversimplifying your position, but it sounds like you know that mythic raiding is difficult. The difficulty is what creates the barrier. So to eliminate the barrier …we’d necessarily have to reduce the difficulty, no? Either by changing the encounters or by greatly buffing players. But the very point of mythic is that it’s difficult and should be hard to surpass, as far as I know.
By all means, I wouldn’t care at all if blizz added a random lfg for mythic raids. As long as they don’t change mechanics.
If the access issue is simply group formation, then sure, whenever you have people leading groups and making them there will inevitably be some kind of discrimination. I don’t think that’s necessarily always a bad thing is all.
Anywho, sorry if I came off as adversarial or smarmy as someone else noted, lol.
More and more, I am using a quote I read recently that basically said:
“Current raiding has 12 Heroic bosses, and 4 Mythic bosses.”
100% agree. 
1 Like
The first four bosses are basically give-mes. Once you get to Broodlord and Kyveza, the difficulty ramps up a bit.