I mean, all this can just be explained by plot armour and no one uses everything at their disposal. If the Horde is able to use all that, the Alliance can use what they have.
There’s not a whole lot they can do to stop the Vindicaar.
Ah yes, the cop out of “Jaina was friendly to the horde” even though the city she was leader of was bringing in troops to fight against the people she was supposedly on good terms with. Cairne was pretty dumb for keeping Magatha around, but at least he would have known it’s his own undoing instead of becoming paranoid over every other faction in the Horde. Sure Garrosh probably could have gone to some other shammy for a blessing, but he was new and probably assumed everything was okay based on Cairne keeping her around
As much as the lack of the Vindicaar annoyed me in BFA.
It should be mentioned that the SI:7, did an amazing job during BFA. Our War Campaign was all about sabotaging the Horde at every opportunity.
We sabotaged the Reliquaries efforts in Vol’dun (and stole an alpaca), we prevented Sylvanas from recruiting the San’layn, we raid Gallywix’s compound (though we only got his body double), we assassinate a senior Dark Ranger, and we utterly devastate the Zandalari fleet. We also pull the Old Switcharoo on the Horde after it’s revealed that they stole the Abyssal Scepter from us, so we steal it back, and we initiate a diversion in Nazmir that draws a huge amount of the Zandalari’s power away from Dazar’alor.
The Alliance War Campaign, with the sole exception of missing Gallywix, was a complete and utter success, and the efforts of the SI:7 were the entire reason that Dazar’alor was such a ridiculous victory for the Alliance.
He’s pretty garbage at diplomacy if he can’t act until someone better than him does so. He waits for Vol’jin to act to betray that warchief, waits for Saurfang to act before betraying this warchief. His father was brave enough to 1v1 a threat out in the open and strong enough to actually win too. If Garrosh wasn’t helped by the poison. That’s why people prefer someone like his father over Baine the Dumbhoof. For someone so good at convincing people he’s right after he got arrested by Sylvanas 90% of the horde leaders didn’t care. Only ones who openly had an issue with it was Garona, Rexxar, and the racially biased tauren chieftess.
I’d hardly call them “civilians” when the culture pretty much makes everyone become some sort of fighter, druid, or priestess of war. That was very much a military stronghold. Literally where they trained all their fresh recruits. Also keep in mind the original goal was to kill their leader and occupy the city as a form of deterrence. A goal made impossible by the disobedience of Sourfang who couldn’t do his job. It was honorable to throw an axe at someones back but not to finish them off. So anyone who died after was his fault.
Lol no, you can save it with that poorly written retcon. If she wanted to kill everyone she’d have blighted the entire nightelven forest. There would be no battle of darkshore, there would be no darkshore. Moving onto the next alliance target until the war is done then blight everyone left. Blight was only used as a last resort when the battle was lost.
He bemoans killing of civilians yet had the chance to kill a powerful military leader, then… decided not to do it? He’s bemoaning killing any alliance let’s just admit that right now. All he wanted was to die and since we actually had a capable military leader he was upset that honorable death was never coming and he took it out on the warchief under the guise of “HONOR!!!111”. His entire BFA character arc was poorly written and they ruined a fan favorite character with this banal drivel of a plot.
Pretty much.
Baine is a weak leader. Sylvanas was a strong one. Nobody forced the writing staff to be a world shattering maniac that cries “the horde is nothing”. Just like how Garrosh was perfectly fine back in WotLK until cata decided to take him in two opposite directions which ultimately led to a really poor story in MoP.
When Legion started Sylvanas was a great faction leader to have. The only people that complained about her was the crowd that’d complain about LITERALLY ANYONE getting more than 3 minutes of the spotlight. Cause they’ll always cry and moan no matter what. When we got the BFA intro she was the perfect leader to have, exactly who I’d want on the frontlines with my army.
Then BFA actually launched and the story we got was a complete 180 from the story the feelings we got hyped up for when BFA got announced. We go from a strong Sylvanas warchief, a proud Saurfang roaring into battle… to this disaster. Sad orcs, sad cows, sad undead losers that have flawless bodies. Everyone trying to out virtue signal each other. Just disgusting.
2 Likes
Lol, I said nothing about her being friendly to the Horde (though she was), I said to Baine she was an enemy he could trust. The only Horde member at that time he might have felt he could trust was Vol’jin (at least as far as we know, Saurfang and others were apparently MIA at that time).
Let me put it this way, who do you turn to when the ones you know you can trust from your own faction are either too far away to be of much help or busy dealing with other things and the only options are risking your life by trusting the wrong person or going to one you know is an enemy but feel you can trust?
If there were other options open, Baine should have gone to them first. But he was dealt a bad hand and made the best of it. Calling him a traitor for going to Jaina for aid, which she provided out of her own pocket, is akin to saying he should have risked a knife in his back for trusting the wrong person. After all, this was also after the Grimtotem had taken over Thunder Bluff and who knows how many sympathizers, or those that agreed with them, there were in the Horde.
1 Like
Stop with your headcanon please.
1 Like
Most really are not…you just have a portion of sylvanas loyalists and or edgelords who want the “Horde” to be the villain and return to the Iron Horde days.
1 Like
I suppose there, but he’s still betraying with the other things
A lot of which just boil down to how it was portrayed as being done by the writers, a few of us are more upset at the fact the writers made him out to be an alliance stooge instead of one that was working with the alliance for the good of the Horde.
Even just a few “throw away” lines about how this was not the Horde his father helped found, this was not the Horde the Tauren joined, etc. would have gone a ways to at least creating a bit of nuance and conflict for him and the players.
1 Like
Man… There Not enough popcorn for all this BS 
of some one faning out there own shill of one hate case it dose not match there so call “Head cannon” 
for reals I could read this all days And laugh and laugh and Laugh how belive “They have better write this story with there idea vison of the horde” for reals Hahahhahahhahahhahaha 
They don’t like Baine because they love the Hitler of Azeroth, Sylv A N U S more.
why I hate him. Took too long to step forward. Didn’t do it at the tree. At lordaeron with gas attack still was on the party line. he had issues, yes. Still turned on the gas.
Now when they just want to turn one little corpse into a bomb…now he acts on his conscience? okay…Bit late and a dollar short there Baine don’t ya think?
(too lazy to switch one of many horde chars…pretend I am on one of many).
My horde hate him for this aspect. And they are mostly elves so…yeah its time for some elvish leadership to make this all right. Let me rephrase…living elvish leadership.
But some slack is given. Many characters in this story were guided by a more malevolent being than this jailor person(s). they were guided by…writers. Why most RP’s (both sides) have me on my own paths. Story and quests pay the bills. Freedom isn’t free, it too has bills to pay lol.
I love how most Baine supporters’ eyes glaze over and avoid the entire Magatha situation.
So Baine was being a good and sensible leader when he allowed Magatha to live after she murdered Cairne and the defenders of Bloodhoof Village and Thunderbluff?
Go back to your Alliance toons.
p.s. Before you try this tactic, I’m throwing out the reminder I despise Sylvanas too.
Baine is alliance scum, just like that two-timing Valeera (yes, we know she identifies as neutral but it’s clear she leans more towards team blue)
The guy denied the Vulpera as allies when they OFFERED to join. That’s plenty worth the death penalty in my eyes.
2 Likes
Maybe in a way, killing her might have made her a martyr or driven the Grimtotem to seek a even harsher revenge. By keeping her alive, if exiled, Baine at least keeps her in charge of the Grimtotem, and she may be many things but stupid is not one of them, the same can’t be said for the rest of the grimtotem. It was really “either way will be bad, but what choice is going to be the least so” situation.
1 Like
Huh uh so what he did was give her another chance. Good try though.
Another chance that if she is ever really going to take advantage of, she has to do it either from a distance or by trying to get Horde members to do her dirty work. She returns to Tauren lands, she dies (if the writers don’t come up with a way to make Baine forget such).
Personally, I might have let her live, after killing her entire clan in front of her and sealing her shaman powers, as it is, on my Shaman, I took her into the Earthen Ring in Legion but more under the idea I could keep an eye on her and if she set one hoof out of line 
1 Like
The fact that she got to show up in the Shaman class hall made me so mad. If you think about it, Magatha was the shot heard around the world… well, Azeroth.
If it wasn’t for her, the events of Cata, MoP, WoD and Legion would have never happened. Cairne would be our warchief and all would well… until Sylvanas came back from the Jailer.
Baine specializes in being subservient. It’s not dialogue if all you’re doing is saying “yes” to whatever the other party says. Baine isn’t a diplomat, he’s a yes man to the Alliance.
Liadrin is the Horde’s best diplomat. Working effortlessly with the Alliance in combined assaults on multiple occasions while still willing to defend the Horde against the Alliance. Also stole the Nightborne from right under the Alliance’s nose.
3 Likes