Why is Saurfang portrayed as the good guy?

Lore Story Forum
82

Grand never said they had to be liked by them to discuss how woman are portrayed in WoW.

Arthas story arc subverts this trope, considering it was he who became emotional and genocidal. Garrosh too.

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83

Except he did. He specifically said that they weren’t the person to have it, and then listed his beef with the poster. It’s absolutely gate keeping. He would be fine with the poster’s points if it was some he liked posting. Then he went on to personal insult the poster. It’s pretty indefensible.

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84

Well in Arthas’s case, the woman tries to calm down the crazy genocidal man
 and she is ignored.

Unlike in Jaina’s case, where the crazy genocidal female is suddenly made sane again by the words of a man.

In Arthas’s case, the Female is simply ignored by the Male. In Jaina’s case, the Female is made sane by the words of the Male.

If anything, it is demonstrative of the trope.

Well
 he did say:

And that is his opinion. I am fine with it. Grand often tries to pretend he is the “Story Forum Grand Wizard” but his words mean little to me.

Especially since he acknowledged I had a point - but his issue is personal with me. He admits the same exact words are worthy of discussion - but with a different avatar.

That is an obvious attack on the poster while admitting I have a point. He basically admits if I said those same words on an Alt - and no one knew it came from me- it would be worthy to him.

So I take it as a compliment. In a vacuum, he sees my point - but if the same point comes from me, he reflexively spouts personal attacks.

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85

Grand never said only people he likes are allowed to have this discussion. Because Curse is the same person who will try to justify almost anything Sylvanas does in the story but at the same time complain about Sylvanas’ character being mishandled by Blizzard because she is a female.

Uther was the one who tried to reason / calm Arthas’ down, not Jaina. Jaina just walked away.

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86

Incorrect. Watch the CoT Stratholm intro. Jaina begins to converse with Arthas
 and Arthas actually cuts her off mid sentence.

Jaina: “Arthas, you can’t just
”

Arthas: “It’s done!.”

87

but then we can say that arthas ignored both her and uther.
You know, the man and the woman.

Arthas ignored everyone.

and we have another parallel.

jaina never wanted kaelthas, so he was left alone an literally went insane.
so i would think that going maniac is more having to do with be left alone rather than by gender.

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88

So he cuts her off mid sentence (after already being incensed that Uther defied him) and that’s your proof Blizzard hates women?

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89

Yeah, I’m callin’ BS. There’s an actual discussion to be had about what you’re saying, but you of all people aren’t the one to have it.

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90

And unlike Arthas, Jaina (a woman) was able to not let her emotions cloud her judgement and saw the error of her ways backed off from crossing a line that can’t be uncrossed.

Yet somehow people interpret that as “WOmEN beINg puT iN THeir PLAcE by A mAn.”

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91

“Blizzard hating women” is your strawman that you built up. I never said it.

I said Blizzard was tone deaf to gender issues, and many other issues. Like the Horde reception to Teldrassil or the Alliance reception to “Tyrande got her revenge for the Night Elves.”

And yes, Arthas cutting off Jaina while he listened to Uther’s words is an example. As are Malfurion telling Tyrande to hush, and Jaina requiring a male to bring her back from her genocidal rage.

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92

Oh okay. “BLIzzaRD doESN’t undeRSTanD GENdEr iSSuEs” because of that one time Malfurion told Tyrande to be quiet or that other ONE TIME Arthas cut Jaina off because he was hellbent on killing civilians.

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93

Keep stacking those "one time"s like Wyclef.

Listing multiple related "one time"s shows a pattern.

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94

Because, shockingly, it’s possible for characters to have flaws and a lapse in judgement. Hence “one time” is used for individual characters and aren’t just consolidated to prove some kind of agenda.

How about you stop trying to see this from a writers pov and consider the possiblity that the circumstances warrant Arthas cutting Jaina off or Malfurion telling Tyrande to be quiet because the world as he knew it was ending and he just wanted to know where his brother was?

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95

You prove yourself wrong again.

Before I corrected you, you stated she didn’t try to reason with him and she just walked away.

You were completely incorrect. She did try to reason with him - and was cut off.

You were either lying or ignorant. I am not so quick to call people liars
 so it would seem the latter.

You didnt even know she tried to calm him down. Which speaks to the presentation from Blizzard.

Again, you build this strawman of an “agenda”. It seems like some people get really touchy when they are corrected. I said they were tone deaf, not promoting an agenda.

Oh please. More posters trying to dictate the conversation. You are welcome to ignore my posts if you find them so distasteful.

On these forums, we discuss the story. All aspects of it. Even authorial intent, and even corporate/commercial impacts on the story.

As if the Story Forum is a mere chronology, and every post should just be:

“Yup. This happened. No need to analyze or discuss.”

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96

Where was all of this “Blizz hates women” rhetoric back when you guys were defending everything Sylvanas did? It looks to me like you just jumped on that train because it coincided with something you were already mad about.

It’s also a weak argument.

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97

Sadfang exists to feel sad, but he can’t feel sad unless he keeps committing fresh atrocities.

He’s a perpetual motion atrocity machine.

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98

“Arthas! You can’t just–” and “I’m sorry Arthas, I can’t watch you do this.” are Jaina’s exact lines. Where in those two lines does it sound like Jaina trying to “reason” with Arthas? Because for me, if you’re trying to reason with someone, you need to actually come up with some counter point(s) or even try to argue, which Jaina didn’t do.

In fact, she didn’t do much of anything about Arthas which Jaina herself acknowledges during cinematic cutscene when she was saved from that other realm she was exiled to.

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99

Because Blizzard loves byronic “heroes.” Even if they aren’t any good at writing them.

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100

One can try to reason with another and fail if they are cut off mid sentence.

Her attempt at reasoning is cut off by Arthas. Interrupted.

Arthas cuts her off - before she finishes her statement - as she attempts to reason with him, and he ignores her position. He cuts her off with:

“It’s done!”

The female is not even aloud to finish the thought she was going to express. But she did try to reason with him before she was cut off. That is plain.

Unless you think she was going to say some completely unrelated non sequitur, like: “You can’t just 
 drink milk out of the jug! We all use it!”

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101

And if Jaina were Janos, Arthas would have cut him off in just the same way, because he was already sick of listening to Uther.

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