Why is ret so bad in timewalking

Classes Paladin
21

im looking at sims of the best gear in each slot from each lvl of difficulty and the funny thing is haste seems to be on every single piece except a few…

22

Also want to point out- if you are genuinely looking for advice of players who have been around since forever you can come to the Paladin Discord and the overwhelming majority will say there is no stat priority for ret. I encourage every serious Ret to join the discord honestly. It’s full of theorycrafters and guidewriters and just generally knowledgeable people.

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23

Please let me know of the 6 other guides you refer to. I will list below the ones that I am aware of. 3 of them do not provide any stat weights, 1 provides statweights and is regarded as a decent guide, 1 provides statweights and the community as a whole refers to as bad and 1 guide provides stat weights but is not updated.

I have been playing this game since Vanilla. I have Realm First kills on all bosses in ICC and every Cutting Edge since its introduction. I am a Moderator in the Hammer of Wrath Paladin Discord and my guide is listed as one of the available resources. What about this makes me unqualified to give advice? IF you want to bring up logs all of my kills are public on Warcraft Logs so feel free to look yourself.

Azerite going away next expansion does not mean stat weights will be relevant. We do not know what system will be added and we do not know if we will go through yet another redesign. As as stated previously stat weights do not account for losing another stat. The way it works in a sim is that it adds 238 of every stat and will subtract the new DPS from old DPS and divide that result by 238 to give a rough value for 1 point of a given stat. This does not account for loss of other stats wheich is a large factor.

Icy Veins- Shows Haste
Noxxic(Universally regarded as terrible)- Shows Haste
WoWHead- Does not list any stat weights and encourages you to sim gear.
RetPaladin.xyz(My site)- Does not list any stat weights and encourages you to sim gear.
The Silver Hand- Not updated.
Thete on YouTube- Does not list any stat weights and encourages you to sim gear.

3 Likes
24

if i cared as much as i used to about WoW i would take you up on the invite but i dont raid when i do i pug and im definitely not optional with my gearing i just like blowing things up in IE’s and PvP :slight_smile:

25

Those best gear in each slot sims use 1 profileset (so the same gear/talent/azerite) for every sim. So that statement checks out since you are changing only 1 variable in each sim. However to apply those results to yourself in real life, in whatever gear you happen to have gotten your hands on, in many different situations is just extremely misguided.

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26

I never said you were unqualified i have also been playing since vanilla and it for that matter make me any smarter than the next guy if anything maybe dumber cause i look at all the new players as NOOBS and they might know something but since as long as iv been playing Haste after str has always been the best stat… a shorted GCD is a blessing means i can spam more abilities…

27

im not discrediting anything either of you are saying but i guess for MY play style ill always chase haste…

28

With all due respect- experience really doesn’t mean you are qualified to make any statement. I’m sure you are very smart and capable but being smart doesn’t automatically mean you are informed enough to be offering advice. You’re arguing here with someone heavily involved in theorycrafting. Someone who spends honestly WAY too much time researching and creating resources for people like you. To say you can compete with that is honestly pretty arrogant. There’s a difference between discussion and trying to learn but you seem completely unwilling to learn. No community is perfect and we are pretty open to discussing possible oversights but you have 0 proof to back up your statements. Your biggest argument is citing IV which also encourages you to use raidbots to sim.

2 Likes
29

Ok since im under qualified ill offer this bit of advice here is a keyword you like using Theory and The definition of a theory is an idea to explain something, or a set of guiding principles. but its not a FACT and if you reread my post i said politely that i am not discrediting anything you two have said and now you are making a personal attack of my character by calling me arrogant because i disagreed and then said it was a stat i chased god you are the arrogant one… and no wheres did i say i was not willing to learn i believe i said if i cared enough about WoW id prolly worry more about sims… and zero proof is that’s funny there are tons of sites backing my claims why would i need proof if someone just used google… And i also looked into their toon and yes they are a heck of a raider but a lot wasn’t done as ret… so anyhow good luck with that giant head of yours and thanks for the discussion…

30

I already asked you what other resources you were referring to but you never provided them. I gave you a list of the ones I know of and it did not support your theory of my guide was the only one that did not say Haste is the best. If you could please let me know of the other guides you have found as I am not aware of them.

All of my achievements are done as a Paladin. I used to make a new Paladin each xpac so they’re not all on the same character.

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31

get the butter

Things are getting juicy in here.

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32

Sim > Generic Stat weights. “stat weights” are always fluid, in the sense, your top stat will change depending on what your total stats are of your gear combined, atleast thats how i have always looked at it.

That is why ive always tried to take the time to sim, that being said as im fairly casual these days it hasnt been a huge factor.

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33

Oh good grief,the only good advice is “sim yourself”,but there are guides for players who just want to hang out and play and have a general idea.Fighting over who is right when all are coming from a different place is childish.

And Tw in Ret can be irritating when you get a negative number value for haste.Happened to me once,it was awful.

3 Likes
34

It is one thing for you to look at guides and do what they say.

It is another thing to tell others something you saw in a guide such as “haste is our best stat” when you don’t understand that reason the guide has you getting an amount of haste to a point.

Do you see the difference?

35

You’ll find with most paladin specs that they put haste platforms, spots where you get extra ability presses and auto attacks. Then they want you to get crit. Then at end game it turns into mastery.

So it’s haste to get faster access to abilities. Crit so that most of your attacks do Max dmg. And then mastery to increases all the holy dmg you do, AKA all the dmg you do increases with mastery.

But the first two stats(haste/crit) start out the most important until you hit a haste point for extra holy point generation. Then mastery maxes you out. It’s been that way a long time with pallies. Though people are gonna argue this, it is, very true

36

There are no obtainable soft-caps. At 100% Haste you hit the minimum GCD of 0.75s but Haste will still continue to lower the CD’s of your generators.

37

I knew we would get stuck on soft cap… everyone freaks out at that wording. So there are haste points where you get access to an extra holy point generator over the course of a minute. I’ll edit my other post

40

If you say haste is not our most important stat then I am not sure what to tell you. Might want to go look at how our procs works in this RNG fest.

As to the OP consistently pulling 1.2k in those TW dungeons as they are packed with trash so spamming Divine Storm is easy.

41

You don’t have to tell me anything. You can look at my previous replies in this thread where I have justified my response.

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42

Can I also point out we are debating modern BFA abilities in instance made for completely different talent trees and builds. Not even going to mention the gear which is drastically different now compared to then.