This thread isn’t troll-ish at all, OP: your point is totally legitimate. It makes zero sense for various Horde NPCs to tolerate the murder of an entire freaking city but lose their s*** over the Derek thing.
I mean, I don’t have a problem with the Derek thing - seems like a pretty good tactic if Sylvanas can pull it off. On the scale of war atrocities that we’ve seen, it doesn’t even register.
Another issue is… It makes the other leaders seem pretty sociopathic, I think. Hundreds perhaps thousands of men, women and children burning to death? Totally fine. One questionably intact corpse being risen to murder his family? THERE IS NO HONOR IN THIS!
Both are bad, but one is infinitly worse than the other, and it isn’t the latter.
I know you’re joking, but I’m gonna have an aneurysm if I don’t correct you like the obsessive jerk I am.
No, she was just a supporter of the Stonemason’s Guild, they became the Defias after her death - which was an accident.
I know that, but I think it would be a fun story that she married Varian to sabotage the kingdom from within. The House of Nobles end up killing in what looks like an “accident” to save face as well as cover up black dragon shenanigans.
Only reason is because now Sylvanas is forcing Derek into undeath. Not giving him the option. which suddenly the Horde has issues, despite the fact of Sylvanas resurrecting humans in the mass.
Poor. Story. Telling.
Well first off, your premise is bad. We know that characters like Zelling, Amalia Stone, Rexxar, and Valtrois are all various levels of uncomfortable or disgusted with what is happening to Derek Proudmoore. We don’t actually know the degree to which they are upset about Teldrassil because we never saw their reaction to it. They could be just as upset, even more upset or not upset at all. All we can say with certainty is that they weren’t enough with it to leave the Horde. Which, when you get right down to it, is what we can say about Derek Proudmoore.
Also the title of your thread would seem to imply an answer. The straw that breaks the camel’s back is simply the last straw. It comes last. So if this ‘breaks the Horde’s back’ which isn’t a certainty at all, it could be because of all the things that came before it.
Specifically for Zelling, Amalia Stone and Valtrois, Derek Proudmoore shows Sylvanas crossing her own line and doing something evil by Forsaken standards. The Forsaken do not mind control other undead. Things get a little fuzzy during actual combat and convicted criminals appear to be fair game, but after that, it’s the Forsaken’s cardinal rule, at the core of their identity. Sylvanas is now breaking that rule.
Rexxar seems to be against the entirety of the torturing and conditioning process. For him it’s probably an honor thing.
The first two should be the straw that breaks the Horde’s back. The third should be the straw that breaks the Forsaken’s.
It’s best if you don’t think about it. I feel like that’s how we’re supposed to get through this expansion.
You know Arlifrex, Im beginning to think Blizz is secretly run by microsoft, if one iteration of their product is good then the next then will be garbo and so on and so forth.
I seriously hope that kings of azeroth (a expac in which sylvanas time travels to hijack the scourge, manipulates arthas and he redeems himself at the end, somehow) blows me out of my mind.
Forum Mod Edit: This post has been edited by a moderator due to language. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/code-of-conduct/
The only thing I can think of is, they may be horrified of those acts (the Burning and the Blighting of her own troops), but when Sylvanas continues to insist that both where necessary for the Horde’s survival … without evidence to the contrary you may hate her all you want, but its hard to move against her politically. Sylvanas has always been good at wielding a narrative.
From the onlookers perspective at Teldrassil, it appeared as though Summermoon told her something that forced her to change plans abruptly (even Saurfang thought Sylvie was probing SM for info). At Lordaeron her decision to Blight her own troops actually did nearly route the Alliance forces, if not for Jaina (and lets be fair, her showing up right then was rather unpredictable).
She can’t really do that with Derek … because she’s essentially co-opted Talanji’s desire for justice for her father as an excuse to justify it. This is the first real heinous act she’s pulled in front of them that they can point at and have the evidence to say “this isn’t necessary for the Horde’s survival”. We may hate you for the other stuff, but you are being obvious enough now for us to move against you.
You know the worst part about this is, if for what ever reason this assassination works, it’ll only make us hate blizzard more for forcing characters to be above and beyond stupid to let this happen…really who tf let’s back a relative no matter how close back after being dead for Atleast a decade.
If it fails we run into the same problem of being mad at blizzard for making characters we like go with this and having the audacity to think this could possibly work.
I think what really makes this not work is two or three different factors: One, how insanely telegraphed and not-surprising it is. Two, the sheer amount of cognitive dissonance associated with the entire event from Horde players and characters. Three, uh…
Maybe there wasn’t a three.
I think it’s because it’s exactly that - a straw.
It’s not that torturing Derek into obedience isn’t any worse than what Sylvanas has done thus far - it ISN’T. Not by a long shot. It’s just that the orcs, tauren and trolls have stuck by Sylvanas so far because it was the “Spirits” who named her Warchief and they keep hoping and waiting for that moment that reveals why the “Spirits” named her Warchief and why she’s actually honorable enough for the mantle and that the Horde ISN’T just the tool for a tyrant again.
Except that moment hasn’t come yet. Baine is starting to question if that moment is EVER going to come.
Basically, Baine is getting sick of waiting for the Spirits’ wisdom to be revealed. If there was any HINT that Sylvanas would be a worthy Warchief, it would’ve been seen by now. But so far - nothing. Sylvanas has not only shown ANY remorse for Teldrassil (even after it ended in a retaliation that left the Forsaken, the people she’s supposed to care about, homeless), but her actions in Darkshore, and now with Derek, shows that she hasn’t learned a thing from Teldrassil and is going to KEEP needlessly agitating the Alliance.
Baine has been hoping and praying this whole time that Vol’jin’s visions would eventually make sense, but they STILL don’t. The horrifying realization isn’t “She’s evil and must be stopped.” The realization is “She’s evil, she’s STILL evil, something’s up with Vol’jin’s visions.”
…Or it could be bad writing, and I’m just grasping at straws trying to polish a turd.
Probably the turd polishing.
I think you have inadvertently described the situation for most of the Horde playerbase.
The story in this game progresses too slowly for the immediate rebuke of Sylvanas you expect.
Not only that, but Sylvanas has only just arrived in Zuldazar following the siege, so Talanji has had very little personal experience with her. I guarantee you that once she sees for herself what Sylvanas is about, she will lead the charge against her with the help of Baine (and maybe Saurfang down the line.)
Yeah, Talanji has just met her. But Baine has no excuses.
I’m not sure the plan is just for him to return and be welcomed back, but more likely insert him during an incursion or covert op and then have him go about killing his family.
Send a regular hitman/assassin Katherine and Tandred would just call for the guard immediately and Jaina would ice them. Send their family member there is likely that moment of hesitation that is all an assassin needs.
I think Ashvane will likely tie into this assassination plot as well, where House Ashvane potentially uses their wealth to pay off the right people to frame Jaina for the murder of her mother and/or other brother, to start a Kul’tiran civil war.
Because nobody wants to witness the crime that is Sylvanas abusing his Human Potential.
Burning Teldrassil, blighting her own troops, sacking farming villages, torturing and experimenting on civilians? None of that compares to Sylvanas abusing a Human’s Potential for her own ends!
Hi I have nothing to contribute (what else is new roflroflrofl) but every time I read this I picture eating soggy toast and I want to throw up.
I understand where you’re coming from but still I think most people would realize something isn’t right about a family member being dead for over a decade coming back or even revealing themselves to you.