Why Is Baine Even A Part of the Horde?


(Droité) #130

Honestly, now that Baine has actually taken action, at least he’s more consistent with his ideals than “some” characters. He’s an idealist, and as an idealist he believes in an ideal concept of the Horde, and works towards it. In instances where he feels the Horde is moving away from that ideal, he react negatively … And since he doesn’t really have any personal reason to be antagonistic with the Alliance (outside of those events caused by his people’s affiliation with the Horde) … he doesn’t seem to care if his reactions are beneficial to the Alliance or not.

Long story short, the only reason the Tauren as a whole are even part of the Horde anymore is because of him. A lot of people give him crap for his reaction to Taurajo (which essentially boiled down to building a huge wall, and being satisfied with the death of Hawthorne and his men), but they also neglect to discuss the political pressure he was under by large factions of Tauren to LEAVE the Horde (in “As Our Fathers Before Us”); where many Tauren rightfully blamed their affiliation of the Horde as the reasons for the hardships they faced under the Garrosh regime.

Bluntly, Baine shouldn’t be part of the Horde anymore (nor should most of the Tauren). In many ways, they’re culturally incompatible with what Sylvanas is turning the Horde into (which is ideologically the Forsaken). The reason they don’t leave is a combination of Baine’s belief that HIS Horde is worth fighting for, and the fact that the Tauren being landlocked on Kalimdor makes defending themselves against the Horde really difficult should they leave it. After all, they have one of the largest sources of Fresh Water the Horde depends on at their disposal; the Horde just can’t let them leave.


(Yagarr) #131

Actually, considering that the book summary of Tides of War directly says the factions weren’t in open war, Baine exiling Tauren for seeking revenge for Taurajo is evidence of him putting the well-being of the Tauren Tribes over a few vengeful individuals.

ToW said Taurajo was a mistake and the Alliance only attacked because they thought the Horde would attack them. There’s no mention of them proceeding to attack the Tauren. Baine could either accept his current losses or risk igniting the global war he, Vol’jin, and even Sylvanas were trying to get Garrosh to de-escalate.


(Jazia) #132

Serious question?

Off the top of my head:

Reclaimed Thunder Bluff from the Grimtotem.

Defeated the exiled Grimtotem when they started to make trouble again.

Saved Garrosh from the Quillboar.

Kept the Tauren in the Horde when many wanted to leave.

One of the leaders of the attack on Northwatch Hold.

He was part of Vol’jin’s rebellion.

Zealously defended Garrosh during War Crimes, as Vol’jin requested, so the trial could proceed.

Fought at the Broken Shore.

Recruited the Highmountain.

One of the Horde’s representatives in Zandalar.


#133

Non-sequitur, I like this name and I’m saving it for later.


#134

Supported the Alliance who were arming the Grimtotem.

Same as above.

He beat some pigmen that you and me kill at level 1. Gratz.

Betrayed those who didn’t like Baine’s peace above all mentality.

Valid.

Probably only because the Alliance agreed to it, wouldn’t do anything without the sayso of his Alliance overlords… FINE!

Valid…

Wow, he took part in a trial… color me impressed…

Like literally everyone else, and let us not forget it was Sylvanas who saved his beef (can’t say bacon here)

I think our heroes did most of the work there.

And basically proves what a weakling he is, immediately going for the surrender button while they were still burying the dead that the Alliance caused. He talks a big game, that is all. We, the heroes, are the better representatives as well as Rokhan, who actually DO something.


#135

I read this as a lot of “and Baine was also there.”

Sure, he’s “done” things in the books, but that isn’t in game.

Compare that to Thrall, Vol’jin, Sylvanas, even Lor’themar.

The only instance I remember Baine charging into battle with troops is Siege of Orgrimmar, and he runs away because of fear.

“But he’s inexperienced and young, unproven in battle etc…”. Then why is he leading?

My point is he has been a wasted character in World of Warcraft, and while pacifism is all well and good, consider the type of game we are playing and what the players interact with.

To me he’s been as active as Ji Firepaw.


#136

Ji Firepaw is even better, he has been part of the Horde for less time and he has done about as much as Baine, which is sad.


#137

Ji is concentrated awesome though.


#138

I want to see Baine acting for the Horde not for the alliance.


#139

I’m going expand a bit on what I said, I know I can come off a bit abrasive.

Consider how Baine would be viewed if he was charging headlong to take down Garrosh and Vol’jin had to stop him and remind him of the values of Thrall’s Horde. Growth.

Everything listed about keeping Taurens in the Horde, and the peace after the Grimtotems…that’s obligation. Anyone in the same position should have made the same call. Wouldn’t Dezco? Aponi? Hamuul?

His father died for what he believed, had courage to make a sacrifice if need be. When will the cowardly lion find his courage?

I think it is coming, and won’t be a fist pump moment. I think he’s going to snap and do something stupid.

I had hoped the Tauren charging to the front lines in the BFA cinematic was Baine, perfect opportunity for growth, supporting Saurfang actively.

Also, does anyone remember that the Tauren from the vanilla cinematic is the only character to kill the person he was fighting? He smashes the dwarf hunter. Peace is all well and good, until the other side doesn’t want it.

Again, author fiat, had to be in this war, and he should have opportunities to oppose Sylvanas. I mean, the portal to Silithus with the Cenarion Circle and Earthen Ring is RIGHT THERE.

Could he not have gathered them, the Sunwalkers, the Blood Knights, etc…and maybe stopped things from going so far? If he’s on such good terms with the Alliance, maybe actually actively oppose her?

He’s the only one in this position, to actually unite factions against her…and he sneaks around undermining in the shadows.

It’s honestly pathetic at this point. Give me cop sunglasses-wearing Lasan smiling while he drops bombs off birds anyday. At least he knows who he is.


(Arazlok) #143

Eh, majority of Lord of the Clans was written by Metzen. Golden added the Taretha and other minor changes changes from the canceled game. Such as canceling a lot of the comedic aspects and high as a kite Deathwing.

Baine is in the Horde due the Tauren being in the Horde. But yeah for my tastes he has way to much development with Alliance characters.


(Bargrand) #144

People keep bringing this up. There was a single incident of an Alliance commander making a decision in the field without the knowledge or approval of the Alliance as a whole to aid a single Grimtotem village that was under attack by Horde forces in exchange for safe passage through their territory. Let me reiterate, this happened ONE TIME and it was in the immediate aftermath of the Battle of Stonetalon.


(Jazia) #145

These are ALL valid.

They are ALL things that have NOTHING to do with his friendship with Jaina and Anduin.

Just because you think they should somehow be erased because you dislike other things he did it does not mean they never happened.

“Oh it doesn’t matter that he kept the tauren in the Horde when they wanted to leave because he “betrayed” the people who refused to follow his orders

Please.

I already told you on that other thread I am 100% done trying to talk to you. Waste of time.

You remember that differently than I do.


#146

Baine is part of the Horde because he is a gnome/human half-breed spirit born inside a tauren.


(Ximothy) #147

He hits the dwarf’s bear.

Baine never runs off. He stays by Vol’jin’s side until they reach the barracks in the Underhold, where Baine secures the front while Vol’jin returns to the surface briefly.

Baine also fought at our side on Broken Shore, where he was with Sylvanas and fought alongside us all the way to the end, until Sylvanas called the retreat. He was there alongside many of his soldiers, and was present and fighting before we the players arrived. He later fights alongside the Horde leaders during Vol’jin’s funeral against the ambush.

He was also present for the Battle for Lordaeron too, where he helped defend the city against the Alliance. He stayed around until Sylvanas ordered the retreat, though was pissed Sylvanas intended to leave Saurfang to die, he did end up leaving because, for Baine, dying there would accomplish nothing.

There are also book examples of him leading troops from the frontlines but you wanted in game examples.

Baine’s many things, but he absolutely will lead from the frontlines when he deems it needed to, even against enemies he doesn’t want to fight. Baine’s been present at some of the most important battles of the recent Horde conflicts.


(Droité) #148

NO! DON’T SAY THESE THINGS! That doesn’t meld with the ever moving goalposts of Baine hate!

He’s done a few things that benefited the Alliance (against Garrosh during the racist highlight period of his rule; and against Sylvanas when she takes an acttion that proves that even the philosophies of HER OWN PEOPLE are totally optional and valueless to her). He also didn’t go full on overkill with his need for revenge against the Alliance for Taurajo (even though Hawthorne and his men paid the price for their mistakes and actions; and he reinforced his own borders in response).

This means he’s irredeemable, because in order to be a Horde leader … you need to dream about wading though Alliance blood every single night (and only ever worry about being how “Pragmatic” you can be … Ideals, or wanting the Horde to represent ANYTHING is for the weak). Remember, whats important isn’t what the Horde stands FOR … as long as it stands AGAINST the Alliance. :stuck_out_tongue:


(Reallyhappy) #149

HOW IS DEFENDING YOUR LANDS WAR MONGERING

If it was against an innocent settlement i would get it, but it was BAEL MODAN! An alliance fort that bombarded an entire tribe into extinction!


(Deathisfinal) #150

WHY IS BAINE EVEN A PART OF THE HORDE?

I have no idea, he’s done so many great things for the Alliance, they would accept him with open arms.


(Belandas) #151

Before Before the Storm, from the perspective of the dear Warchief:

Some days she wished that Baine would just follow his big, bleeding heart and turn the tauren to the Alliance. But her disdain for the tauren’s gentleness did not eclipse her need of them. As long as Baine remained loyal – and thus far he was, where it counted – she would use him and his people to the Horde’s advantage.

As others have noted, I too am confused at his apparent indifference to the Blight used at Lordaeron, the raising of Horde soldiers, and the Burning of Teldrassil, and his sudden surge of anger at the “violation” of a single undead Kul Tiran human.


#152

He smashes the hunter in the second scene.