10/28/2018 12:14 PMPosted by
Vesiana
The problem was some of them were a lot more prolific than others. Mainly the newer demons, like Jailers and Imp Mothers.
This might have been the problem, yeah.
My Night Elf Shadow Priest is full on insane, worse than the Old Gods evil.
I've RPed my Shadow Priest as an adherent of the Night Warrior for years. Well before 8.1, when the Night Warrior was a more obscure bit of lore. She's not evil, though. It's just the path assigned to her by the Goddess, sometimes the best way to help her people is not to heal them, but to take out whatever has the gall to threaten them in the first place.
That's a pretty cool way to play a Night Elf Shadow Priest. It actually was only recently that I would have connected the two, which is embarrassing, since Dark Side of Elune is so obvious.
However, I made my Night Elf Shadow Priest out of adoration for the Twilight's Hammer, and when we found out about the Black Empire I dove head first for that. Which I consider lucky, given how Shadow Priests were tied right into all that in Legion with Xal'atath and all. My Night Elf Shadow Priest is definitely knaifu for lifu. My Night Elf Shadow Priest's story for her using Xal'atath at Silithus was as an attempt to kill Xal'atath so that Xal'atath could never leave her.
My most morally questionable would probably be my Warlocks (I know, how original).
I like your takes on Warlocks a lot. My Warlock is also Destruction, and proudly wears the "of the Black Harvest" title. Unfortunately can't play a Night Elf Warlock, so originally I had made her a Human Warlock, before immediately race changing her to a Void Elf the moment I could. My story for my Warlock is actually less evil. I actually went with the idea of being addicted to killing tying into the Soul Shards mechanic, similar to how the Death Knights were once suggested to be addicted to causing suffering. But friends have directed her away from indiscriminate killing and instead place here on the battlefield where she can sate her addiction while helping fight for good causes.
That's a pretty cool way to play a Night Elf Shadow Priest. It actually was only recently that I would have connected the two, which is embarrassing, since Dark Side of Elune is so obvious.
I've done it since early Cata. Archaeology had the necklace mentioning the Night Warrior, and that Elune wasn't always a pacifist. And the Worgen have a farewell when you talk to them, "Let the light of the new moon guide you.", which always struck me as weird, since the new moon has no light. But, even though the Worgen weren't talking about Elune, it got me thinking about Elune, and moon phases, and the light and shadow of Priests. So, I headcanoned some Night Warrior as the new moon phase stuff, and made a Night Elf Shadow Priest.
And here we are, about 8 years later, and the Night Warrior is turning the moon dark, passing out dark eyes to the Night Elves, and giving Tyrande shadowy powers, lol.
1 Like
I know the lore is all over the place. Especially now. But, I always felt the Forsaken was a two part agreement. First you had to agree to become undead. Then decide if you want to join the Forsaken or go your own way.
10/28/2018 11:10 AMPosted by
Amadis
This is shared not to be contrarian but to give my own perspective:
I like the forsaken. I like that they are antithetical - to me - to the living. I (to incorporate/steal from Yersynia) like the trans human aspect. These are all things that made me lean to the Death Knight as a kind of “forsaken lite.” To me it helps explore other forms of “life” and other motivations.
Again, not to detract from your experiences and story, Amadis, but having different flavors of viewpoints fits my own personal viewpoints. I fully acknowledge that it’s not a universally shared one, but that makes it more interesting to me.
As I've said to a few other people throughout this thread, I think your reasons for enjoying the Forsaken are perfectly valid ones. And I thank you for sharing your reasonings here.
Since you're joining us just now, I'll also add for you, too, while I hate the Forsaken, I don't hate you for liking them. I believe you should get to enjoy them. I want you to enjoy what you do, and I want you to get to enjoy what you do. It will just never be what I enjoy. And that's okay.
I completely agree. I did post earlier back but wanted to add at least
some substance. Like you, I have no issues with those that find them abhorrent or awesome. Thank you for the validation, though.
1 Like
After taking the time to read this, I get what you mean, but I disagree with your understanding of the forsaken and the depression analogy.
As somebody with a lot of traumatic experiences, I would never wish my life on anybody else....
but the matter is that the Alliance IS a threat to the horde, whether people want to admit ot or not. It is war.
Even if I agreed with your analogy, (which I dont fully) I'd rather live in physical, and mental, psycological, and emotional suffering for a thousand years, than die today.
As long as you are alive, there is hope for a better future.
Also, just because there was a setback In BTS, it doesnt mean that there can never be peace- there just cant be right NOW.
There is a road to peace, and a way it has to be approached, and that wasnt it.
A war the horde started, while the alliance was vying for peace. Also, from what the alliance leaders were saying in 8.1.They were talking about rebuilding the world, healing it along with the horde when this war is over. The alliance is a threat to us thing is something sylvanas fed you guys very very well. You are almost indoctrinated to it tbh. All for the sake of her self preservation. As for the setback in BTS, guess who caused it. Thats right, sylvanas. Because peace is not in her best interest. So for all you guys who want legitimate peace. Its never gonna happen with sylvanas at the helm.
1 Like
The Forsaken don't bother me, the writers bother me. Since day one of WoW they've been portrayed as Scourge-lite reveling in death, slime, and other predictably 'yucky' zombie-like tropes. It betrays a lack of creativity and baffling logic considering they are diametrically opposed with the sentiments of most of the (original launch) Horde.
Sylvanas, in particular, is basically Arthas. And there's never been any attempt to disguise that. She's been kept around because of Dave Kosak (formerly) and other current members of the dev team who doubtlessly sleep with a life-size Sylvanas waifu pillow.
There's plenty of other ways to write the Forsaken to make them more compelling and less zombie-like but that would take effort... or someone with a modest education and background in creative writing.
2 Likes
First off, I didn't really read most of your OP because for me, those things are private and I feel icky reading about someone else's personal trials. That's not a criticism of you for posting it, though; if it works for you then I think that's great and I laud you for your courage. The most important thing that you are doing well. I mention not reading it only so you'll understand if I don't refer back to it.
However, I am sure you understand that there are other players who love the Forsaken just as passionately as you hate them, and for reasons that are just as legitimate. Whether or not you hate or love the Forsaken can't be an issue in discussing their role in the game. Those feelings are personal and off limits.
So, much respect for you continuing to do what you need to do to stay healthy. Be well.
2 Likes
And here we are, about 8 years later, and the Night Warrior is turning the moon dark, passing out dark eyes to the Night Elves, and giving Tyrande shadowy powers
Hahaha, that must have been really validating!
10/28/2018 01:14 PMPosted by
Kaath
I know the lore is all over the place. Especially now. But, I always felt the Forsaken was a two part agreement. First you had to agree to become undead. Then decide if you want to join the Forsaken or go your own way.
With Thomas Zelling that was certainly the case, but he made his choice to become Undead while he was still alive. An issue I have against the Forsaken is the dead cannot give consent, so undeath is forced upon them - something Thomas Zelling is also appalled by coming up in 8.1 when he sees Derek Proudmoore risen in undeath when he couldn't have made the choice to the way Thomas Zelling himself did. And in doing it, it also forces upon them having to choose what if they want to continue being undead, and if so, what after that.
I completely agree. I did post earlier back but wanted to add at least some substance. Like you, I have no issues with those that find them abhorrent or awesome. Thank you for the validation, though.
No need to thank me for that, as it was my the point of my posting this, to give context to people so hopefully they don't feel attacked.
But I do want to thank you for deciding to come back and adding more to the conversation! I always welcome and hope for that, as that's what we come here to the Story Forum for, I'm sure.
A war the horde started, while the alliance was vying for peace. Also, from what the alliance leaders were saying in 8.1.They were talking about rebuilding the world, healing it along with the horde when this war is over. The alliance is a threat to us thing is something sylvanas fed you guys very very well. You are almost indoctrinated to it tbh. All for the sake of her self preservation. As for the setback in BTS, guess who caused it. Thats right, sylvanas. Because peace is not in her best interest. So for all you guys who want legitimate peace. Its never gonna happen with sylvanas at the helm.
I do have to agree. Sylvanas is the root of a lot of the Forsaken's evil.
10/28/2018 03:04 PMPosted by
Asbury
The Forsaken don't bother me, the writers bother me. Since day one of WoW they've been portrayed as Scourge-lite reveling in death, slime, and other predictably 'yucky' zombie-like tropes. It betrays a lack of creativity and baffling logic considering they are diametrically opposed with the sentiments of most of the (original launch) Horde.
Sylvanas, in particular, is basically Arthas. And there's never been any attempt to disguise that. She's been kept around because of Dave Kosak (formerly) and other current members of the dev team who doubtlessly sleep with a life-size Sylvanas waifu pillow.
There's plenty of other ways to write the Forsaken to make them more compelling and less zombie-like but that would take effort... or someone with a modest education and background in creative writing.
I also agree with this. There are so many ways the Forsaken can be explored that isn't becoming exactly what they hated before.
I am sure you understand that there are other players who love the Forsaken just as passionately as you hate them, and for reasons that are just as legitimate.
They absolutely are just as legitimate. And every time someone has come here to post why they feel they do about the Forsaken I have supported them and thanked them for sharing their reasons.
That was my point in all this. That we are very different people. Who you are makes the Forsaken speak to you in a way that is all your own. And who I am makes the Forsaken speak to me in an entirely different way. I hate the Forsaken. For my own personal reasons that have nothing to do with you. And the Forsaken mean a lot to you, for person reasons that have nothing to do with me. And that's okay. That's good even.
Whether or not you hate or love the Forsaken can't be an issue in discussing their role in the game. Those feelings are personal and off limits.
I do hate the Forsaken. But, as I've said to others, it's not because I want to attack you. I hate them because my life has been what my life has been. And if you like the Forsaken, I don't want you to think I hate you. I don't want you to think I believe that you should not enjoy the Forsaken. I merely want you to understand that whenever I say anything negative about the Forsaken, it is because what I feel towards them as a reflection of what I feel for my life, not because I believe you enjoying them is wrong.
Re-contextualization was my hope. I don't want people to feel attacked because I'm attacking a fictional setting. And I hope this helps people understand that context, as if we all can approach this feeling less attacked we can all have far more meaningful discussions.
So, much respect for you continuing to do what you need to do to stay healthy. Be well.
Thank you. I will do my best.
I haven't read all 20 pages of this thread, so I apologize if what I have to say is redundant, but the Forsaken were considerably more nuanced and less homogenous when I was first exposed to them. That went out the window in Wrath and was run over by a truck in Cata.
1 Like
10/28/2018 05:26 PMPosted by
Ruthus
I haven't read all 20 pages of this thread, so I apologize if what I have to say is redundant, but the Forsaken were considerably more nuanced and less homogenous when I was first exposed to them. That went out the window in Wrath and was run over by a truck in Cata.
Oh, I completely agree. Though I did not like the Forsaken before Cataclsym, that was mostly stemmed from sick things like Theresa <Gerard's Mindslave> and Thersa Windsong, but all races had evil people doing questionable things here and there back then, so the Forsaken were not actually a notch above everyone else in being despicable then. I didn't even mind Sylvanas in Classic, and it wasn't until Sylvanas forced her experimental plague on a poor living girl that then died in a horrific and painful description in
Arthas: Rise of the Lich King that I came to hate her. But Cataclysm and the Val'kyr just made the Forsaken beyond disgusting to me.
10/28/2018 05:38 PMPosted by
Amadis
I didn't even mind Sylvanas in Classic, and it wasn't until Sylvanas forced her experimental plague on a poor living girl that then died in a horrific and painful description in Arthas: Rise of the Lich King that I came to hate her. But Cataclysm and the Val'kyr just made the Forsaken beyond disgusting to me.
It is kind of funny that the Forsaken as a culture and government were at their most restrained and thoughtful when their military was led by a dreadlord.
1 Like
10/28/2018 05:39 PMPosted by
Ruthus
It is kind of funny that the Forsaken as a culture and government were at their most restrained and thoughtful when their military was led by a dreadlord.
Well, more careful at least. Said dreadlord was evidently spending all that time using said government and military as a means to betray Sylvanas with.
10/28/2018 04:50 PMPosted by
Amadis
And here we are, about 8 years later, and the Night Warrior is turning the moon dark, passing out dark eyes to the Night Elves, and giving Tyrande shadowy powers
Hahaha, that must have been really validating!
A bit... But at what cost?
/sigh
1 Like
And here we are, about 8 years later, and the Night Warrior is turning the moon dark, passing out dark eyes to the Night Elves, and giving Tyrande shadowy powers
A bit... But at what cost?
/sigh
To be fair, at least Tyrande's lethality and fighting presentation are far cooler now.
But yes, I have a whole other thread listing problems I still have with the Darkshore Warfront quest introductions.