Same.10/27/2018 09:48 PMPosted by NecroxisThat final line of, "We gonna bury you here" still gives me a little chill up my spine.
ZA was suuuuch a waste of that character.
ZA was suuuuch a waste of that character.
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BC was a waste of a handful of great Horde characters. Zul'jin, Kael'thas, Kargath... and of course, it gave us Garrosh, the epitome of wasted potential.10/27/2018 10:01 PMPosted by KazalaSame.10/27/2018 09:48 PMPosted by NecroxisThat final line of, "We gonna bury you here" still gives me a little chill up my spine.
ZA was suuuuch a waste of that character.
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<span class="truncated">...</span>Same.BC was a waste of a handful of great Horde characters. Zul'jin, Kael'thas, Kargath... and of course, it gave us Garrosh, the epitome of wasted potential.
ZA was suuuuch a waste of that character.
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Before I even got into the story, I absolutely loved the Naga and Lady Vashj from Frozen Throne. And was so incredibly disappointed when they turned her into a !@#$ty Captain Planet villain in Zangarmarsh. Even with their hasty retcons of Illidan to make it seem like he was right all along, Vashj's purpose still made no sense.
My headcanon was that Illidan was trying to make another Well of Eternity using Vashj draining Zangarmarsh's water + Kael'thas siphoning all the arcane out of Netherstorm, eventually combining it trying to make another Well, but they never connected those dots canonically. Then they both died and their purposes there were kind of ignored going forward.
Still, super disappointed about Vashj and Kael'thas' fates even to this day.
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10/27/2018 10:52 PMPosted by GrandbladeBC was a waste of a handful of great Horde characters. Zul'jin, Kael'thas, Kargath... and of course, it gave us Garrosh, the epitome of wasted potential.10/27/2018 10:01 PMPosted by Kazala...Same.
ZA was suuuuch a waste of that character.
It says a lot when ‘Vengeance For Zul’jin’ is a concise way to express grievances with the story team.
I think we can all unite on the lore travesty that was Burning Crusade.
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Outland itself was pretty nice though.
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10/27/2018 10:57 PMPosted by SaiphasI think we can all unite on the lore travesty that was Burning Crusade.
I don't hate TBC. It did a lot wrong but that was back when Blizzard was more about showing a world than telling a story and in the large scheme of things (at the time), the raids vs named characters was amazing.
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I... er... hm....
...
I'm going to pull an Ariel here but be less abrasive about it (and much shorter as well) and state that I don't really understand the purpose of this thread.
Yes this is a forum and yes sharing opinions are fine, but you prefaced it with a needless backstory to, which I assume, is to pull a pathos on potential readers to empathize with your plight to support your viewpoint. But then you go on to write the post stating that the opposite argument is fine and you don't wish for their viewpoints to change either and are completely valid to it. Commendable, sure, but calls into question why this thread exists in the first place.
If you just wanted to post your opinion but not have anyone argue against it... why post it? Unless you view your opinion/post as infallible and all others points contradictory to be inferior/flawed, but that calls into question your "commendable" stance of accepting any and all opposing opinion. Not to mention starting this thread with a heated headliner of "Why I hate X".
So again, what's the point here? Are you trying to make Forsaken fans/players feel bad or something?
...
I'm going to pull an Ariel here but be less abrasive about it (and much shorter as well) and state that I don't really understand the purpose of this thread.
Yes this is a forum and yes sharing opinions are fine, but you prefaced it with a needless backstory to, which I assume, is to pull a pathos on potential readers to empathize with your plight to support your viewpoint. But then you go on to write the post stating that the opposite argument is fine and you don't wish for their viewpoints to change either and are completely valid to it. Commendable, sure, but calls into question why this thread exists in the first place.
If you just wanted to post your opinion but not have anyone argue against it... why post it? Unless you view your opinion/post as infallible and all others points contradictory to be inferior/flawed, but that calls into question your "commendable" stance of accepting any and all opposing opinion. Not to mention starting this thread with a heated headliner of "Why I hate X".
So again, what's the point here? Are you trying to make Forsaken fans/players feel bad or something?
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10/28/2018 12:17 AMPosted by VivetteAre you trying to make Forsaken fans/players feel bad or something?
The answer to this question, in most Forsaken threads, especially those that have "I Hate the Forsaken" as part of the title, is almost always yes.
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Sorry about your depression, but if the Forsaken bother you so much, it isn’t healthy for you to keep playing this game. You should consider taking a step out, if only until the focus of the story shifts.
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10/27/2018 09:48 PMPosted by NecroxisAlthough ZA came out during the time between me giving up raiding (I was a vanilla hardcore raider and was dipping my toes back into BT) in BC and before starting up again in Wrath, I really loved the ZA trailer for Zul'jin alone.
That final line of, "We gonna bury you here" still gives me a little chill up my spine.
ZA was some of my last bit of real hardcore raiding. Getting the Amani War Bears for our team over and over, it put a lot of stress on us. When it was my best friend's - Dierle that I mentioned - turn to get the bear Dierle gave it to me. It meant a lot. It meant even more after because our group couldn't pull it together to clear the ZA in time again before the Amani War Bear was retired and became unobtainable and so Dierle never got one.... That whole timed run put way too much stress on us.
But yes, "We gonna bury you here" also still gives me shivers. That is still an amazing cinematic and some stellar voice acting.
10/27/2018 10:01 PMPosted by KazalaSame.10/27/2018 09:48 PMPosted by NecroxisThat final line of, "We gonna bury you here" still gives me a little chill up my spine.
ZA was suuuuch a waste of that character.
ZA was such a huge waste. Budd Nedreck was the story. Budd Nedreck. It was the dumbest idea ever.
Even the retelling of ZA during Cataclysm didn't really help make up for that.
10/27/2018 10:54 PMPosted by NecroxisBefore I even got into the story, I absolutely loved the Naga and Lady Vashj from Frozen Throne. And was so incredibly disappointed when they turned her into a !@#$ty Captain Planet villain in Zangarmarsh. Even with their hasty retcons of Illidan to make it seem like he was right all along, Vashj's purpose still made no sense.
My headcanon was that Illidan was trying to make another Well of Eternity using Vashj draining Zangarmarsh's water + Kael'thas siphoning all the arcane out of Netherstorm, eventually combining it trying to make another Well, but they never connected those dots canonically. Then they both died and their purposes there were kind of ignored going forward.
I completely agree. And I think that was everyone's headcanon more or less, really. At least it was before Chronicles came out. BC really dropped the ball on a lot of stories. But Tewdee is right:
10/27/2018 11:09 PMPosted by Tewdee10/27/2018 10:57 PMPosted by SaiphasI think we can all unite on the lore travesty that was Burning Crusade.
I don't hate TBC. It did a lot wrong but that was back when Blizzard was more about showing a world than telling a story and in the large scheme of things (at the time), the raids vs named characters was amazing.
10/28/2018 12:17 AMPosted by VivetteI'm going to pull an Ariel here
To preface my response to you, I will admit, I have little to no respect for Ariel. There is a poster who's only style of posting is to lash out in anger, and to take that anger out on others by trying to mock them. Ariel makes no attempts to understand others. And as others in this thread have devised, we are often trying to figure out why other posters think and feel the way they do. My thread's purpose was to share why I feel the way I do.
10/28/2018 12:17 AMPosted by Vivetteyou prefaced it with a needless backstory
I'm going to assume, like Ariel, that you didn't actually read my first post. It starts off with the sentence "In celebration of reaching 100 reputations exalted on this character, I decided to treat myself to posting my life story." If you find my story needless, you didn't need to read my post. Which you didn't, so, kudos. But you still decided to post in my thread without any context to what you were responding to. So, indeed, you are pulling an Ariel.
10/28/2018 12:17 AMPosted by VivetteUnless you view your opinion/post as infallible and all others points contradictory to be inferior/flawed, but that calls into question your "commendable" stance of accepting any and all opposing opinion.
Less abrasive is a funny way to describe yourself. Indirectly trying to call me into question by accusing me of a superiority complex or worse without even having bothered to read my posts is perhaps even worse than just directly insulting me.
10/28/2018 12:17 AMPosted by VivetteNot to mention starting this thread with a heated headliner of "Why I hate X".
My thread title was very deliberately chosen. I hate the Forsaken. This is how I feel. That I will not sugar coat.
If people actually read my post, they would see I do not attack the Forsaken fan base. If people can't make it passed the thread title, I definitely don't expect them to read through the wall of text that was my story to get to that part, though. And without my story I wouldn't feel what I do about the Forsaken. If people don't care to understand why I hate the Forsaken, I'm not sure why they would bother to post here in response to a person they didn't actually care to read the reasoning of.
10/28/2018 12:17 AMPosted by VivetteSo again, what's the point here? Are you trying to make Forsaken fans/players feel bad or something?
So, to finally give you an answer to the only question you actually asked, I'm going to repost for you some responses I wrote up else wise specifically for Darethy:
10/27/2018 12:54 AMPosted by Darethy10/27/2018 12:44 AMPosted by AmadisWe are very different people. And that's my point in all this. Who you are makes the Forsaken speak to you in a way that is all your own. And who I am makes the Forsaken speak to me in an entirely different way. I hate the Forsaken. For my own personal reasons that have nothing to do with you. And the Forsaken mean a lot to you, for person reasons that have nothing to do with me. And that's okay. That's good even. I do hate the Forsaken. But it's not because I want to attack you. I hate them because my life has been what my life has been. And if you like the Forsaken, I don't want you to think I hate you. I don't want you to think I believe that you should not enjoy the Forsaken. I merely want you to understand that whenever I say anything negative about the Forsaken, it is because what I feel towards them as a reflection of what I feel for my life, not because I believe you enjoying them is wrong.
I think all of that makes sense, and it re-contextualizes a lot of the disagreements, and the anger i'v had, in the past.
10/27/2018 01:05 AMPosted by Amadis10/27/2018 12:54 AMPosted by DarethyI think all of that makes sense, and it re-contextualizes a lot of the disagreements, and the anger i'v had, in the past.
re-contextualization was my hope. I don't want people to feel attacked because I'm attacking a fictional setting. And I hope this helps people understand that context, as if we all can approach this feeling less attacked we can all have far more meaningful discussions.
Case in point, it cite back to Calixto and your conversation about Nathanos. If I Calixto hadn't helped defuse the situation, I never would have opened up to any possibility other than Nathanos being killed off with Sylvanas. And now I can see that there are possibilities that in the long term could be acceptable that don't include that. Which I never could have acknowledged if I decided to considering the enjoyment of Nathanos as a personal attack on me.
10/28/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Vaethria10/28/2018 12:17 AMPosted by VivetteAre you trying to make Forsaken fans/players feel bad or something?
The answer to this question, in most Forsaken threads, especially those that have "I Hate the Forsaken" as part of the title, is almost always yes.
I cannot make it clearer than I have that in this thread here that I posted the answer is as loudly as I can make it: No.
I don't want you to feel bad. That's my point.
But as stated above, I don't expect people who can't make it passed the thread title to make it passed the wall of text after it.
Edit: You ironically posted this in the Story Forum Community Lounge a couple of hours before posting here in my thread:
10/27/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Vaethria10/25/2018 10:34 PMPosted by SaiphasHow do you guys deal with recognizing you’re being overly combative with others online? I’ve noticed things that used to just bug me have been getting magnified and I can even see my posts become more aggressive than is needed.
I want to just hang out and talk positive cool lore things, but more recently I keep finding myself interjecting into arguments when I don’t need to. Any advice?
Step one: take a break.
Step two: re-read everything before you post to see if it either (1) adds to the conversation, or (2) is at least a good joke (and will lighten the mood) if it's a tangent.
Both do a lot to help threads stay less vitriolic.
Both are also why I post far less than I used to.
I wish you had taken your own advice.
10/28/2018 12:54 AMPosted by FarrarSorry about your depression, but if the Forsaken bother you so much, it isn’t healthy for you to keep playing this game. You should consider taking a step out, if only until the focus of the story shifts.
Much of my life is not healthy. That's where getting help comes in. Especially through connecting with friends and family. Which if you had read my post starting in this thread you would have found a message of that there in as well.
But, heck, your statement can apply to most of the posters here on the Story Forums right now. If we all took your advise - and don't get me wrong, a lot of people who were here have, so it's not actually bad advice, but - this place would be a ghost town.
This is shared not to be contrarian but to give my own perspective:
I like the forsaken. I like that they are antithetical - to me - to the living. I (to incorporate/steal from Yersynia) like the trans human aspect. These are all things that made me lean to the Death Knight as a kind of “forsaken lite.” To me it helps explore other forms of “life” and other motivations.
Again, not to detract from your experiences and story, Amadis, but having different flavors of viewpoints fits my own personal viewpoints. I fully acknowledge that it’s not a universally shared one, but that makes it more interesting to me.
I like the forsaken. I like that they are antithetical - to me - to the living. I (to incorporate/steal from Yersynia) like the trans human aspect. These are all things that made me lean to the Death Knight as a kind of “forsaken lite.” To me it helps explore other forms of “life” and other motivations.
Again, not to detract from your experiences and story, Amadis, but having different flavors of viewpoints fits my own personal viewpoints. I fully acknowledge that it’s not a universally shared one, but that makes it more interesting to me.
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10/28/2018 11:02 AMPosted by LilywhiteThis is shared not to be contrarian but to give my own perspective:
I like the forsaken. I like that they are antithetical - to me - to the living. I (to incorporate/steal from Yersynia) like the trans human aspect. These are all things that made me lean to the Death Knight as a kind of “forsaken lite.” To me it helps explore other forms of “life” and other motivations.
Again, not to detract from your experiences and story, Amadis, but having different flavors of viewpoints fits my own personal viewpoints. I fully acknowledge that it’s not a universally shared one, but that makes it more interesting to me.
As I've said to a few other people throughout this thread, I think your reasons for enjoying the Forsaken are perfectly valid ones. And I thank you for sharing your reasonings here.
Since you're joining us just now, I'll also add for you, too, while I hate the Forsaken, I don't hate you for liking them. I believe you should get to enjoy them. I want you to enjoy what you do, and I want you to get to enjoy what you do. It will just never be what I enjoy. And that's okay.
Morally, I'm quite okay with them. I rather enjoy villainous factions and the chance to play on them.
I just don't like zombies. )= Not something I particularly enjoy playing.
I really wish we had a playable demon faction.
I just don't like zombies. )= Not something I particularly enjoy playing.
I really wish we had a playable demon faction.
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10/28/2018 11:28 AMPosted by VesianaMorally, I'm quite okay with them. I rather enjoy villainous factions and the chance to play on them.
To be perfectly clear, I also indulge in playing villains. I am not "above" that either. My Night Elf Rogue I play as being involved with the Druids of the Flame - sometimes just wanting the Horde the burn, sometimes wanting the whole world to burn, sometimes - on my more indulgent days - I play him as having taken over as the new Firelord after Ragnaros as befitting of wearing that title next to his name. My Night Elf Shadow Priest is full on insane, worse than the Old Gods evil. I do not think indulging in fantasy violence or evil role play is inherently bad. And I support anyone who can do indulge in that in a healthy way that causes no harm to others.
10/28/2018 11:28 AMPosted by VesianaI just don't like zombies. )= Not something I particularly enjoy playing.
Well, hey, my first character, since I wanted to play Druid Horde side, was a Tauren, and that wasn't something I particularly enjoyed playing, either, so I feel you there, too.
10/28/2018 11:28 AMPosted by VesianaI really wish we had a playable demon faction.
I wish Legion at least had shown more variety in demons. It felt like it really dropped a number of the ones we saw back in BC, like the Gan'arg, Mo'arg Engineers, and I don't recall very many Terrorguards in Legion, either.
Might wanna go back and check. Legion had every single demon on display, and then some.
The problem was some of them were a lot more prolific than others. Mainly the newer demons, like Jailers and Imp Mothers. But the old demons were there.
The problem was some of them were a lot more prolific than others. Mainly the newer demons, like Jailers and Imp Mothers. But the old demons were there.
My Night Elf Shadow Priest is full on insane, worse than the Old Gods evil.
I've RPed my Shadow Priest as an adherent of the Night Warrior for years. Well before 8.1, when the Night Warrior was a more obscure bit of lore. She's not evil, though. It's just the path assigned to her by the Goddess, sometimes the best way to help her people is not to heal them, but to take out whatever has the gall to threaten them in the first place.
My most morally questionable would probably be my Warlocks (I know, how original).
My Void Elf used to run... an establishment where one can enjoy all manner of indulgences, in Silvermoon. He's Demo, because he enjoys the domination aspect (and why his usual demon, in-character, is a succubus), and started following Umbric's research in order to use the Void to bind, bully, and dominate demons. He's also maybe not evil, per se, though he's definitely outlandishly hedonistic, to a fault. Though he is highly upset about his exile, and the loss of his business and wordly posessions, so I can see a case being made for him being evil from a Blood Elf's perspective, when he gets his hands on one.
My Worgen Warlock (Destro), likes to indulge the feral nature of his Worgen form, and the pure chaos of the magic he weilds. So he sometimes goes a bit overboard with the pyrotechnics. He's not entirely loyal to Greymane, but very much loyal to Gilneas, so he has a particular liking to using Forsaken souls to fuel his magic. And since Forsaken souls are a bit... damaged, he needs lots of them...
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