WoW has somewhat bungled this up by tying their paradisical afterlife to an impersonal force. Sure, other beings can intervene, like the Naaru for Bridenbrad, or Elune. Then there's the Plaguelands quest where you kill ghouls, releasing their spirits, who join the Light. But the Light doesn't know you, or any of your circumstances. It's just magic.
And who knows what they're trying to do with the Shadowlands. Sometimes it's Purgatory, sometimes it's eternal punishment, not to mention domains carved out by entities like Bwonsamdi. Sometimes everyone is going there. Sometimes only those unfit for the Light are going there. /shrug
Tl,dr: It's all just a big mess, because they kept the imperfect human condition, made a traditional, Judeo-Christian Heaven like afterlife, but then made the "deity" associated with that afterlife an impersonal school of magic.
WoW does have very inconsistent depictions of the afterlife, in its multitudes, in its vagueness, and even in its abundance of details that would conflict with each other, yeah.
10/27/2018 01:02 PMPosted by
Darethy
I mean as a side note: I'm both sleepy, AND I think we have thought about this way, way harder then Blizzard has.
Definitely agree with you there.
10/27/2018 01:02 PMPosted by
Darethy
I think we have thought about this way, way harder then Blizzard has.
This is the Story Forums.
It's what we do.
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Of note, I believe killing Sylvanas would do the Forsaken a lot of favors in being able to flesh them out.
Where would their people go? What would the consensus on the Dark Lady be? Do they martyr her, make her a deity or demonize her? Would those Forsaken driven out by the war machine return to the fold? Would more Forsaken break off, forming their own groups?
As much as the Desolate Council was a shoe-horned thing added to the novel for the purpose of making us feel bad when they inevitably died, the description of it's purpose and how they functioned in the Forsaken society was far more interesting than anything Forsaken related since WOTLK and all it required was the removal of Sylvanas from the picture, albeit briefly.
1 Like
10/27/2018 01:07 PMPosted by
Tewdee
Of note, I believe killing Sylvanas would do the Forsaken a lot of favors in being able to flesh them out.
Where would their people go? What would the consensus on the Dark Lady be? Do they martyr her, make her a deity or demonize her? Would those Forsaken driven out by the war machine return to the fold? Would more Forsaken break off, forming their own groups?
As much as the Desolate Council was a shoe-horned thing added to the novel for the purpose of making us feel bad when they inevitably died, the description of it's purpose and how they functioned in the Forsaken society was far more interesting than anything Forsaken related since WOTLK and all it required was the removal of Sylvanas from the picture, albeit briefly.
I agree.
It would also be good to note that the vision Sylvanas saw of the Forsaken throwing themselves onto fires to avoid the Alliance's wrath in
Egde of Night was based on the depiction of the original Forsaken we saw in Classic WoW, and so that vision is not actually applicable any longer to the Forsaken in the culture they have formed since Cataclysm.
10/27/2018 01:11 PMPosted by
Amadis
It would also be good to note that the vision Sylvanas saw of the Forsaken throwing themselves onto fires to avoid the Alliance's wrath in Egde of Night was based on the depiction of the original Forsaken we saw in Classic WoW, and so that vision is not actually applicable any longer to the Forsaken in the culture they have formed since Cataclysm.
To be fair though, she did just kill off the element of Forsaken society that
would be ok taking the Forsaken forward in her absence/death.
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To be fair though, she did just kill off the element of Forsaken society that would be ok taking the Forsaken forward in her absence/death.
True, but if she was killed, as Tewdee described, it would necessitate the Forsaken to figure out how to govern themselves without her.
10/27/2018 01:20 PMPosted by
Amadis
True, but if she was killed, as Tewdee described, it would necessitate the Forsaken to figure out how to govern themselves without her.
That's not how Blizzard writes stories, though. The Forsaken would just fade into irrelevance, as leaderless as the Trolls and Orcs, and as homeless as the Night Elves and Worgen.
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That's not how Blizzard writes stories, though. The Forsaken would just fade into irrelevance, as leaderless as the Trolls and Orcs, and as homeless as the Night Elves and Worgen.
That is definitely a concern, and I don't think you're wrong.
10/27/2018 01:33 PMPosted by
Amadis
That's not how Blizzard writes stories, though. The Forsaken would just fade into irrelevance, as leaderless as the Trolls and Orcs, and as homeless as the Night Elves and Worgen.
That is definitely a concern, and I don't think you're wrong.
It's an interesting dichotomy, now that I think about it.
On the one hand, Sylvanas is holding the Forsaken back, keeping their plot from progressing past her cult of personality.
On the other hand, her cult of personality extends to a large number of the fanbase, as well, and the Forsaken are dependent on her for relevance.
1 Like
10/27/2018 01:33 PMPosted by
Amadis
...
That is definitely a concern, and I don't think you're wrong.
It's an interesting dichotomy, now that I think about it.
On the one hand, Sylvanas is holding the Forsaken back, keeping their plot from progressing past her cult of personality.
On the other hand, her cult of personality extends to a large number of the fanbase, as well, and the Forsaken are dependent on her for relevance.
It is a massive problem. Add on top the resistance towards the Horde losing another Warchief, and you have the situation we find ourselves in now.
I liked the free will aspect of the forsaken, but thats gone...
I liked the cult of forgotten shadows...
I loved the forsaken aesthetic, but most of our major darkshore peeps are elves...
I loved the fallen kingdom aspect of the forsaken, but we lost Lordaeron...
I do like most forsaken characters, but Sylvanas and Nathanos are getting to me...
I loved the durability in forsaken lore, at least until Before the Storm came along...
I love the forsaken Horde dynamic that was... lost when sylvanas became warchief...
Where do i qualify as a forsaken fan, as i like many forsaken themes, but none of the ones they are focusing on?
2 Likes
Where do i qualify as a forsaken fan, as i like many forsaken themes, but none of the ones they are focusing on?
Well, despite your character name, not very happy, I imagine.
I said similar to a few other people throughout this thread, but I think all the reasons you listed for liking and loving the Forsaken are solid reasons for doing so. And I'm sorry the presentation has not been fulfilling those reasons for you.
Since you're joining us just now, I'll add for you, too, while I hate the Forsaken, I don't hate you for liking them. I believe you should get to enjoy them, and I'm sorry that you're not getting to. I want you to enjoy what you do, and I want you to get to enjoy what you do. It will just never be what I enjoy. And that's okay.
Where do i qualify as a forsaken fan, as i like many forsaken themes, but none of the ones they are focusing on?
Probably where a lot of us are. Or, rather, where all the non-Sylvanas Forsaken fans are.
Such an interesting aesthetic and concept, nearly entirely thrown away to service a single character.
My Warlock, when I played on Horde for nearly 4 years, was Forsaken. I really like the idea of them a lot and hope, one day, we can get away from the black hole sucking up all their development.
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Where do i qualify as a forsaken fan, as i like many forsaken themes, but none of the ones they are focusing on?
You'll become disillusioned, abandon your character and eventually roll a Troll Druid dressed as a pirate.
Wait.
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Such an interesting aesthetic and concept, nearly entirely thrown away to service a single character.
My Warlock, when I played on Horde for nearly 4 years, was Forsaken. I really like the idea of them a lot and hope, one day, we can get away from the black hole sucking up all their development.
I certainly agree.
Honestly, seeing your helm that I always tie with Putress, I often think you are a Forsaken player before I realize you're a worgen.
10/27/2018 07:02 PMPosted by
Tewdee
Where do i qualify as a forsaken fan, as i like many forsaken themes, but none of the ones they are focusing on?
You'll become disillusioned, abandon your character and eventually roll a Troll Druid dressed as a pirate.
Future Vulpera pirate alt, how I long for you.
10/27/2018 08:03 PMPosted by
Amadis
Such an interesting aesthetic and concept, nearly entirely thrown away to service a single character.
My Warlock, when I played on Horde for nearly 4 years, was Forsaken. I really like the idea of them a lot and hope, one day, we can get away from the black hole sucking up all their development.
I certainly agree.
Honestly, seeing your helm that I always tie with Putress, I often think you are a Forsaken player before I realize you're a worgen.
For as short a time as Putress was in the story, I absolutely fell in love with that character. I have a special place for really cool villains in my heart in WoW and Putress is definitely toward the top of that list. The second I saw his set was obtainable back in Wrath I got it and once xmog got into the game I've been using it ever since.
Putress fit the Forsaken theme but, most importantly, wasn't tied to stupid Sylvanas. I really wanted him to last much longer as a villain. I feel like if he was introduced later on in WoW, they would have kept him around much longer. Outside of the Lich King, back then I don't think Blizzard appreciated how much people enjoy a good villain sticking around for a bit.
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For as short a time as Putress was in the story, I absolutely fell in love with that character. I have a special place for really cool villains in my heart in WoW and Putress is definitely toward the top of that list. The second I saw his set was obtainable back in Wrath I got it and once xmog got into the game I've been using it ever since.
Putress fit the Forsaken theme but, most importantly, wasn't tied to stupid Sylvanas. I really wanted him to last much longer as a villain. I feel like if he was introduced later on in WoW, they would have kept him around much longer. Outside of the Lich King, back then I don't think Blizzard appreciated how much people enjoy a good villain sticking around for a bit.
Putress was especially impactful for me because we turned in quest items to him at Shattrath during the zombie apocalypse pre-patch event before Wrath.
Tangent: Zul'jin is one of my favorite villains ever in WoW, even if he didn't stick around.
"You wanna stay? You stay here forever!
We gonna bury you here."
Although ZA came out during the time between me giving up raiding (I was a vanilla hardcore raider and was dipping my toes back into BT) in BC and before starting up again in Wrath, I really loved the ZA trailer for Zul'jin alone.
That final line of, "We gonna bury you here" still gives me a little chill up my spine.
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