Outside of the faction war, and all the messy topics that brings up.
I also like the Forsakens religion, like everything about it reminds me of home. The balance of light and shadow, with a leaning more towards shadow, but trying to mix the two to achieve a sense of understanding and rationale within the universe. Like this might seem super weird Amadis, but would you believe within my cultural identity the Lightforged and Void Elves freak me out WAY MORE then the zombies do?
Beings who carve out one primal element of the universe to become embodiment of the other element almost come off as monstrous to me, especially when you get stuff like...well pretty much everything going on with Voidmancy and Gonks children right now.
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10/26/2018 11:52 PMPosted by DarethyI also like the Forsakens religion, like everything about it reminds me of home. The balance of light and shadow, with a leaning more towards shadow, but trying to mix the two to achieve a sense of understanding and rationale within the universe. Like this might seem super weird Amadis, but would you believe within my cultural identity the Lightforged and Void Elves freak me out WAY MORE then the zombies do?
I can believe that people can believe a lot of things. It doesn't seem that weird that your culture would find the Lightforged and Void Elves more disturbing than the Undead. There are so many cultures around the world with so many different perceptions, many of which simply are completely different than what we can even imagine. If that's your culture, that's yours to embrace and share as you will.
I am writing up a response to your first post in this thread now. It might take me a bit. It's quite a lot to respond to.
10/27/2018 12:01 AMPosted by Amadis10/26/2018 11:52 PMPosted by DarethyI also like the Forsakens religion, like everything about it reminds me of home. The balance of light and shadow, with a leaning more towards shadow, but trying to mix the two to achieve a sense of understanding and rationale within the universe. Like this might seem super weird Amadis, but would you believe within my cultural identity the Lightforged and Void Elves freak me out WAY MORE then the zombies do?
I can believe that people can believe a lot of things. It doesn't seem that weird that your culture would find the Lightforged and Void Elves more disturbing than the Undead. There are so many cultures around the world with so many different perceptions, many of which simply are completely different than what we can even imagine. If that's your culture, that's yours to embrace and share as you will.
I am writing up a response to your first post in this thread now. It might take me a bit. It's quite a lot to respond to.
Don't worry about it. Also, apologies for the aggression at the tail end of that post, at that point I wasn't really talking to you or anyone else, it was more my frustrations with BfA and it's story direction boiling over.
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It's difficult to exaggerate how much incredibly impactful lore goes down in The Shattering.10/26/2018 11:46 PMPosted by DarethyThunder Bluff got raided by the Grimtotem, killing people in their sleep, completely off screen and...
Like, this is the book that fleshes out Anduin as a character, and puts him on the road to becoming the Perfect Boy.
This is the book that fleshes out Baine as a character, and instantly ruins him by having him piss on the aid granted to him by the Alliance in favor of the guy who killed his dad and then looked the other way while the Grimtotem took over his home and tried to assassinate him.
This is the book that elevates Garrosh to Warchief, kicks off the new Faction War, kills off Cairne, and turns Magni to diamond.
This is the book that introduces frigging Aggra.
This is the book where Varian leads a strike team into Ironforge and forces the Dwarves to change their entire structure of government while holding their legitimate regent at sword-point, forever ending the notion that the member states of the Alliance are equals.
There's a lot of things in there, man. I can't even remember it all at the moment. And it's all the same stuff we're still arguing about today.
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I really like the Forsaken architecture aesthetic from Wrath forward. Great mad science vibe, with really nice colors. I'd actually dig it a lot if they focused on the apothecary/science stuff after the faction war simmers down. Like, say Tinker gets introduced as a new class, and Forsaken are chosen as one of the races that can play them. Obviously they'd fit wonderfully with any sort of Apothecary spec, but imagine if there was a mech suit tanking spec! They could roll in with some really Frankenstein-esque tech, with crudely-stitched leather and tesla coils and maybe even some biological bits here and there! I think that'd be neat as heck.
And if you didn't buy that book...
You would have no !@#$%^- clue about whats even happening right now.
Sometimes I wonder how many players just wander around in a daze, confused about all the things never seen in a short story or novella.
You would have no !@#$%^- clue about whats even happening right now.
Sometimes I wonder how many players just wander around in a daze, confused about all the things never seen in a short story or novella.
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It's difficult to exaggerate how much incredibly impactful lore goes down in The Shattering.10/26/2018 11:46 PMPosted by DarethyThunder Bluff got raided by the Grimtotem, killing people in their sleep, completely off screen and...
Like, this is the book that fleshes out Anduin as a character, and puts him on the road to becoming the Perfect Boy.
This is the book that fleshes out Baine as a character, and instantly ruins him by having him piss on the aid granted to him by the Alliance in favor of the guy who killed his dad and then looked the other way while the Grimtotem took over his home and tried to assassinate him.
This is the book that elevates Garrosh to Warchief, kicks off the new Faction War, kills off Cairne, and turns Magni to diamond.
This is the book that introduces frigging Aggra.
This is the book where Varian leads a strike team into Ironforge and forces the Dwarves to change their entire structure of government while holding their legitimate regent at sword-point, forever ending the notion that the member states of the Alliance are equals.
There's a lot of things in there, man. I can't even remember it all at the moment. And it's all the same stuff we're still arguing about today.
To me, this is why I am absolutely certain Varian's death was necessary to walk back the damn High King position. None of the Alliance race's could challenge after the hordification of the Alliance in Cata and MoP. I am, despite the fact I think it is strategically unsound, GLAD that not only did Tyrande and Genn go to Darkshore, but that they were able to do so despite Anduin's objections, and that he does not once seek to punish either group for their actions. The Alliance is at its best as a coalition, it needs to be that way again.
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The best way to walk that back would've been to have the next military leader of the Alliance be not his own perfectly perfect teenage son.10/27/2018 12:17 AMPosted by SaiphasTo me, this is why I am absolutely certain Varian's death was necessary to walk back the damn High King position.
They should've let Stormwind and the Wrynns take a backseat, and given the reins to someone else. The story would've been so much better with Genn as a dark mirror of Lothar -- a man who lost his homeland to the Horde as Supreme Commander of the Alliance forces -- with Anduin in the role of Terenas.
Sylvanas and Greymane could've absolutely believably thrown down with a vengeance and dragged the world into total war without the need to exaggerate or villain bat either of them.
10/27/2018 12:34 AMPosted by KazalaThe best way to walk that back would've been to have the next military leader of the Alliance be not his own perfectly perfect teenage son.10/27/2018 12:17 AMPosted by SaiphasTo me, this is why I am absolutely certain Varian's death was necessary to walk back the damn High King position.
They should've let Stormwind and the Wrynns take a backseat, and given the reins to someone else. The story would've been so much better with Genn as a dark mirror of Lothar -- a man who lost his homeland to the Horde as Supreme Commander of the Alliance forces -- with Anduin in the role of Terenas.
Sylvanas and Greymane could've absolutely believably thrown down with a vengeance and dragged the world into total war without the need to exaggerate or villain bat either of them.
Kazala, I get you. However there are clear signs they have been walking back the high king. Is it the best way to do it? Nope, but I am glad they are making the effort to restore the Alliance to what it once was.
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10/26/2018 08:24 PMPosted by DarethyI was born in the United States, 1993, February 26th
Darethy, you are close to my sister in age, which, admittedly, makes me a fair bit older than you. But that being said, I will not treat you any differently because of our age difference. My sister is actually younger than you. And she is an R&D Chef for a huge baking company now. Like I said in my first post, my sister beat me for top of our class by a few grade points, and has the trophy with her name carved into it to prove it. To treat you differently because of your age would not just be disrespectful to you, it would be disrespectful to my sister, which you can insert in any hyperbolic idea you want here for what I would rather have happen.
I could regale you with stories about how our father was emotionally and physically abusive to me - as a child he would pick me up and throw me across the room into walls like a football, and would punch his fist through doors when I hid behind them - only for years later for me to be on okay terms with him now. This was a man that I thought I would hate my whole life, but years later, far after the divorce that I had been hoping for all my childhood, he got his act together and went to school here and became a nurse, and was one until he retired. In his old age, he simply isn't who he was when he was the age I am now.
I could tell you stories about my mother cleaning houses for rich people, and how people still disrespect her because even after spending more than half her life in the U.S. she still speaks in a heavy accent and has off English grammar, but she went to medical school back in Mexico, and worked her way up from the bottom when she came to this country from fruit picker to the medical coder she's been for more than two decades now - and I still haven't actually technically achieved the American Dream, because my mother still makes more money than I do.
But what I think is more important is that, well, you and I have very different cultures. I actually know very little about Vietnamese culture. What little I know was from watching a video of soldiers from Vietnam (not American soldiers, not Vietnamese allies to America, but Vietnamese soldiers that had been fighting for Vietnam against the Americans) telling their side of the story in an anthropology class. And, frankly, even while I found that enlightening, it was just a single grain of sand in the entire expanse of cultures from Vietnam.
What you and I share is not having pride in being a U.S. citizen. I could have become one half my life ago. I way overqualified for it when I finally applied. But simply, I resent this country, but mostly because it resents me. So I spent my entire life clinging to my green card, the perfect technical fit for me. Resident. I lived here. But I wasn't treated like I belong, so I didn't want to be part of the country, either. I held onto that for as long as I could, until it started feeling too dangerous to keep doing so, and decided to finally accept being a citizen for my safety over my pride.
But here's another major difference between you and me. Mexican culture does not speak to me. It's not who I am, it's not part of my life, and it's not something I ever look to. Which of course made me the least Mexican Mexican you could ever meet. And I'd like to say the American culture doesn't speak to me, either, but, that's not entirely true. Because WoW, dubbed anime, games published by Nintendo of America, these are a sub-culture of American culture. The latter of two obvious stem from a sub-culture of Japanese culture, which I find fascinating - but not as fascinating as my younger brother, who graduated with a psychology degree and has been living in Japan for the passed five years teaching English and climbing every mountain, visiting every city (teachers and their crazy summer and winter breaks), and completely immersing himself in Japan's culture (and doing enough exercise to have a six pack). My younger brother is everything my childhood self wanted to be when I grew up. But that's not who I am. I am an American Otaku. That's my culture. So I don't actually have a national culture to embrace the way you do. I don't think I ever will.
On top of that, I don't actually relate to the Night Elves the way you relate to the Forsaken. I enjoy the Night Elves. They do not speak to me culturally, though. I love nature - through the window of my car. I don't actually want to have any animals in my life. I am not religious. Frankly, Night Elves do not culturally reflect anything for me. Like I said in an earlier post, I played this character for six years before I got attached to the Night Elf story. I indulged in WoW's story, but all of it, from Tanaris to Southshore. I played this character as a wandering traveler, more attached to the world than to the Night Elves. Until Cataclysm. But even after Cataclysm, where my heart went out to the Night Elves, they do not reflect a culture I am attached to the way the Forsaken reflect your culture for you.
We are very different people. And that's my point in all this. Who you are makes the Forsaken speak to you in a way that is all your own. And who I am makes the Forsaken speak to me in an entirely different way. I hate the Forsaken. For my own personal reasons that have nothing to do with you. And the Forsaken mean a lot to you, for person reasons that have nothing to do with me. And that's okay. That's good even. I do hate the Forsaken. But it's not because I want to attack you. I hate them because my life has been what my life has been. And if you like the Forsaken, I don't want you to think I hate you. I don't want you to think I believe that you should not enjoy the Forsaken. I merely want you to understand that whenever I say anything negative about the Forsaken, it is because what I feel towards them as a reflection of what I feel for my life, not because I believe you enjoying them is wrong.
Well I did it. I read all the pages of the thread.
I often wonder if the story forums has kind of gotten trapped in its own cumulative headcanon. There’s a lot of assumptions that have just kind of been absorbed into the consensus without due examination - I certainly don’t try and push back on Saiphas’ and Grandblade’s conclusions about the pathos/trajectory of the story, despite disagreeing entirely, because it’s not something you can really argue productively. But in not voicing a dissent, that has gained traction as the presumed authoritative view.
The point I’m getting at is that there’s so much insistence that the story has to end with Sylvanas dead or deposed that I worry there’s no exploration of what I would consider the most interesting outcome; Actual character development for her.
She has always been given a platform to offer her justifications, albeit presented poorly or not in the game. She isn’t getting the Dominance Offensive treatment, so I don’t fear a MoPv2 treatment either. But with them holding so many cards of hers out of view, I worry that whatever outcome they intend for her, it is going to fall flat because their insistence on an EPIC REVEAL means we can’t get invested.
And for a character who is pretty good at getting players invested in her, this just seems to be Blizzard squandering opportunity.
And if Sylvanas’ story doesn’t resonate, any story for the Forsaken as a whole will also fall flat.
Point is; Get to the point already, Blizzard.
I often wonder if the story forums has kind of gotten trapped in its own cumulative headcanon. There’s a lot of assumptions that have just kind of been absorbed into the consensus without due examination - I certainly don’t try and push back on Saiphas’ and Grandblade’s conclusions about the pathos/trajectory of the story, despite disagreeing entirely, because it’s not something you can really argue productively. But in not voicing a dissent, that has gained traction as the presumed authoritative view.
The point I’m getting at is that there’s so much insistence that the story has to end with Sylvanas dead or deposed that I worry there’s no exploration of what I would consider the most interesting outcome; Actual character development for her.
She has always been given a platform to offer her justifications, albeit presented poorly or not in the game. She isn’t getting the Dominance Offensive treatment, so I don’t fear a MoPv2 treatment either. But with them holding so many cards of hers out of view, I worry that whatever outcome they intend for her, it is going to fall flat because their insistence on an EPIC REVEAL means we can’t get invested.
And for a character who is pretty good at getting players invested in her, this just seems to be Blizzard squandering opportunity.
And if Sylvanas’ story doesn’t resonate, any story for the Forsaken as a whole will also fall flat.
Point is; Get to the point already, Blizzard.
10/27/2018 12:44 AMPosted by Amadis10/26/2018 08:24 PMPosted by DarethyI was born in the United States, 1993, February 26th
Darethy, you are close to my sister in age, which, admittedly, makes me a fair bit older than you. But that being said, I will not treat you any differently because of our age difference. My sister is actually younger than you. And she is an R&D Chef for a huge baking company now. Like I said in my first post, my sister beat me for top of our class by a few grade points, and has the trophy with her name carved into it to prove it. To treat you differently because of your age would not just be disrespectful to you, it would be disrespectful to my sister, which you can insert in any hyperbolic idea you want here for what I would rather have happen.
I could regale you with stories about how our father was emotionally and physically abusive to me - as a child he would pick me up and throw me across the room into walls like a football, and would punch his fist through doors when I hid behind them - only for years later for me to be on okay terms with him now. This was a man that I thought I would hate my whole life, but years later, far after the divorce that I had been hoping for all my childhood, he got his act together and went to school here and became a nurse, and was one until he retired. In his old age, he simply isn't who he was when he was the age I am now.
I could tell you stories about my mother cleaning houses for rich people, and how people still disrespect her because even after spending more than half her life in the U.S. she still speaks in a heavy accent and has off English grammar, but she went to medical school back in Mexico, and worked her way up from the bottom when she came to this country from fruit picker to the medical coder she's been for more than two decades now - and I still haven't actually technically achieved the American Dream, because my mother still makes more money than I do.
But what I think is more important is that, well, you and I have very different cultures. I actually know very little about Vietnamese culture. What little I know was from watching a video of soldiers from Vietnam (not American soldiers, not Vietnamese allies to America, but Vietnamese soldiers that had been fighting for Vietnam against the Americans) telling their side of the story in an anthropology class. And, frankly, even while I found that enlightening, it was just a single grain of sand in the entire expanse of cultures from Vietnam.
What you and I share is not having pride in being a U.S. citizen. I could have become one half my life ago. I way overqualified for it when I finally applied. But simply, I resent this country, but mostly because it resents me. So I spent my entire life clinging to my green card, the perfect technical fit for me. Resident. I lived here. But I wasn't treated like I belong, so I didn't want to be part of the country, either. I held onto that for as long as I could, until it started feeling too dangerous to keep doing so, and decided to finally accept being a citizen for my safety over my pride.
But here's another major difference between you and me. Mexican culture does not speak to me. It's not who I am, it's not part of my life, and it's not something I ever look to. Which of course made me the least Mexican Mexican you could ever meet. And I'd like to say the American culture doesn't speak to me, either, but, that's not entirely true. Because WoW, dubbed anime, games published by Nintendo of America, these are a sub-culture of American culture. The latter of two obvious stem from a sub-culture of Japanese culture, which I find fascinating - but not as fascinating as my younger brother, who graduated with a psychology degree and has been living in Japan for the passed five years teaching English and climbing every mountain, visiting every city (teachers and their crazy summer and winter breaks), and completely immersing himself in Japan's culture (and doing enough exercise to have a six pack). My younger brother is everything my childhood self wanted to be when I grew up. But that's not who I am. I am an American Otaku. That's my culture. So I don't actually have a national culture to embrace the way you do. I don't think I ever will.
On top of that, I don't actually relate to the Night Elves the way you relate to the Forsaken. I enjoy the Night Elves. They do not speak to me culturally, though. I love nature - through the window of my car. I don't actually want to have any animals in my life. I am not religious. Frankly, Night Elves do not culturally reflect anything for me. Like I said in an earlier post, I played this character for six years before I got attached to the Night Elf story. I indulged in WoW's story, but all of it, from Tanaris to Southshore. I played this character as a wandering traveler, more attached to the world than to the Night Elves. Until Cataclysm. But even after Cataclysm, where my heart went out to the Night Elves, they do not reflect a culture I am attached to the way the Forsaken reflect your culture for you.
We are very different people. And that's my point in all this. Who you are makes the Forsaken speak to you in a way that is all your own. And who I am makes the Forsaken speak to me in an entirely different way. I hate the Forsaken. For my own personal reasons that have nothing to do with you. And the Forsaken mean a lot to you, for person reasons that have nothing to do with me. And that's okay. That's good even. I do hate the Forsaken. But it's not because I want to attack you. I hate them because my life has been what my life has been. And if you like the Forsaken, I don't want you to think I hate you. I don't want you to think I believe that you should not enjoy the Forsaken. I merely want you to understand that whenever I say anything negative about the Forsaken, it is because what I feel towards them as a reflection of what I feel for my life, not because I believe you enjoying them is wrong.
I think all of that makes sense, and it re-contextualizes a lot of the disagreements, and the anger i'v had, in the past. It doesn't help that for some bizzare reason Blizzard has decided to take our factions, which have had almost no interaction thusfar, and suddenly made them mortal enemies.
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10/27/2018 12:50 AMPosted by YersyniaWell I did it. I read all the pages of the thread.
I often wonder if the story forums has kind of gotten trapped in its own cumulative headcanon. There’s a lot of assumptions that have just kind of been absorbed into the consensus without due examination - I certainly don’t try and push back on Saiphas’ and Grandblade’s conclusions about the pathos/trajectory of the story, despite disagreeing entirely, because it’s not something you can really argue productively. But in not voicing a dissent, that has gained traction as the presumed authoritative view.
The point I’m getting at is that there’s so much insistence that the story has to end with Sylvanas dead or deposed that I worry there’s no exploration of what I would consider the most interesting outcome; Actual character development for her.
She has always been given a platform to offer her justifications, albeit presented poorly or not in the game. She isn’t getting the Dominance Offensive treatment, so I don’t fear a MoPv2 treatment either. But with them holding so many cards of hers out of view, I worry that whatever outcome they intend for her, it is going to fall flat because their insistence on an EPIC REVEAL means we can’t get invested.
And for a character who is pretty good at getting players invested in her, this just seems to be Blizzard squandering opportunity.
And if Sylvanas’ story doesn’t resonate, any story for the Forsaken as a whole will also fall flat.
Point is; Get to the point already, Blizzard.
Yersynia, I would actually welcome you to lay out where you think the narrative trajectory of the story to be. I honestly am curious. I may disagree with you, but I would like to see the pattern of events and chain of logic you use for your analysis. I mean, I wrote an entire longwinded diatribe trying to map out where I thought her arc was headed, so I would absolutely be interested in your thoughts as to why you see her arc so differently.
Edit: I also hope you arn't implying you think I have somehow stifled debate, quite the opposite really, so if that is the case I do deeply apologize.
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10/27/2018 12:54 AMPosted by DarethyI think all of that makes sense, and it re-contextualizes a lot of the disagreements, and the anger i'v had, in the past. It doesn't help that for some bizzare reason Blizzard has decided to take our factions, which have had almost no interaction thusfar, and suddenly made them mortal enemies.
It is certainly not something I ever expected to happen.
But re-contextualization was my hope. I don't want people to feel attacked because I'm attacking a fictional setting. And I hope this helps people understand that context, as if we all can approach this feeling less attacked we can all have far more meaningful discussions.
Case in point, it cite back to Calixto and your conversation about Nathanos. If I Calixto hadn't helped defuse the situation, I never would have opened up to any possibility other than Nathanos being killed off with Sylvanas. And now I can see that there are possibilities that in the long term could be acceptable that don't include that. Which I never could have acknowledged if I decided to considering the enjoyment of Nathanos as a personal attack on me.
Edit: I also hope you arn't implying you think I have somehow stifled debate, quite the opposite really, so if that is the case I do deeply apologize.
Not at all. I liked your post. I just don’t think it’s worth trying to present my alternate interpretation when we’re just going to have to wait and see anyway - would a few thousand words of me arguing intent add anything to this place?
I come to this forum to learn new things, express dissatisfactions and joys. That kind of long-term speculation doesnt do it for me, and less does effectively trading opinions of what a scene ‘says’ about what is to come.
Jesus, you're a bad person.10/26/2018 09:16 PMPosted by Ariël10/26/2018 07:16 PMPosted by AmadisAriël, why do you bother posting at all? If you did read my post, and the posts after it, and my responses to them, you'll see that pretty much nothing in your post had any relevance to any conversation going on here.
If you don't want to actually be part of a conversation, please go talk to yourself somewhere else.
Ok, you want the off-gloves version, you got it.
Your thread is pointless, rude and manipulative -there I said it-. It´s completely unnecessary to post the sad parts of your life in a soap opera format just to say "I dislike the themathics associated with this race cause they give too much emphasis on depression, and I personally think this is not good not appealing not healthy." That was literally ALL you had to say and the message would had been the same. The fact you put things in a way to initially gain a lot of empathy from the people posting here just to "suddenly" continue with a "Forsaken should become what YOU believe" argument afterwards regardless of other player´s opinion leave a disgusting feeling of wariness in my psyche. It makes me think you put the sad story before so more people would be inclined to agree with your PoV, and that dude is called manipulation.
I´ll be blunt: if the Forsaken narrative is making your depression problem get worse, then time to leave the lore aspect of the game. Concentrate in improving your bonds with your fellow players and friends, cause THAT is what WILL help you conquer the depression at the end, not the 10th rate lore of a game characterized by having one of the worse narratives in the media. Tyrande won´t help you conquer the depression, Anduin won´t help you conquer the depression. Your fellow raid mates and the friends you have made irl? will absolutely help you against it. Share more things with them than the game per se. Go out with them to watch movies or dancing or merely taking walks in the park or share a coffee.
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10/27/2018 01:13 AMPosted by YersyniaEdit: I also hope you arn't implying you think I have somehow stifled debate, quite the opposite really, so if that is the case I do deeply apologize.
Not at all. I liked your post. I just don’t think it’s worth trying to present my alternate interpretation when we’re just going to have to wait and see anyway - would a few thousand words of me arguing intent add anything to this place?
I come to this forum to learn new things, express dissatisfactions and joys. That kind of long-term speculation doesnt do it for me, and less does effectively trading opinions of what a scene ‘says’ about what is to come.
That's fair, my natural tendency is long term analysis (hence my current job). I by both background and inclination love looking at lots of disparate information to sus out whats happening. I also have a bit of addiction do debate and discourse, its something I genuinely enjoy alot of the time.
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10/27/2018 01:13 AMPosted by Yersynia...
Not at all. I liked your post. I just don’t think it’s worth trying to present my alternate interpretation when we’re just going to have to wait and see anyway - would a few thousand words of me arguing intent add anything to this place?
I come to this forum to learn new things, express dissatisfactions and joys. That kind of long-term speculation doesnt do it for me, and less does effectively trading opinions of what a scene ‘says’ about what is to come.
That's fair, my natural tendency is long term analysis (hence my current job). I by both background and inclination love looking at lots of disparate information to sus out whats happening. I also have a bit of addiction do debate and discourse, its something I genuinely enjoy alot of the time.
It's also exhausting. I realized halfway through my ranting that portions of the stuff i'd been saying had been either changed in one of the Chronicles books, or that i'd simply based some of my arguments on bad assumptions. Which is not to say I think everything I said was wrong, but it made me realize i'd been debating so long that I hadn't learned to adept myself properly to the new lore or the changes in BfA.
One of my biggest problems with this expansion is it's made my addiction to conversation feel like a form of self abuse.
10/27/2018 01:13 AMPosted by Yersynia...
Not at all. I liked your post. I just don’t think it’s worth trying to present my alternate interpretation when we’re just going to have to wait and see anyway - would a few thousand words of me arguing intent add anything to this place?
I come to this forum to learn new things, express dissatisfactions and joys. That kind of long-term speculation doesnt do it for me, and less does effectively trading opinions of what a scene ‘says’ about what is to come.
That's fair, my natural tendency is long term analysis (hence my current job). I by both background and inclination love looking at lots of disparate information to sus out whats happening. I also have a bit of addiction do debate and discourse, its something I genuinely enjoy alot of the time.
I like it too. My background is in history and I do a lot of research for my job. I like a bit of wild speculation.
But working with a textual base like Warcraft, as full of holes and contradictions as it is, to predict an outcome when I expect some classic SUBVERSION OF EXPECTATIONS, does not appeal. Don’t build sandcastles below the tide line, is my motto.
@ Darethy, I totally feel you bud, its part of why I took the evening off earlier, because I was becoming dissatisfied both with my level of...curtness and my level of discourse. I'll probably be doing that a bit more this next month or so.
@Yersynia, maybe its because most of my current analysis deals with such matters as civil-military relations, state formation and alliance formation, but inherent and multiple contradictions actually make sense to me. So its a space I am intimately familiar with. It also helps that I have learned (by having it happen multiple times) to adapt to when your current operating framework is just simply wrong, and then move on from there. Like if tomorrow it is revealed that Jaina and the entire proudmoore fam will die in 8.2, aside from being sad I will then see how this alters the framework I built and what are the second and third order effects of this narrative decision. For me it is as engaging as the actual game is (sometimes more so).
@Yersynia, maybe its because most of my current analysis deals with such matters as civil-military relations, state formation and alliance formation, but inherent and multiple contradictions actually make sense to me. So its a space I am intimately familiar with. It also helps that I have learned (by having it happen multiple times) to adapt to when your current operating framework is just simply wrong, and then move on from there. Like if tomorrow it is revealed that Jaina and the entire proudmoore fam will die in 8.2, aside from being sad I will then see how this alters the framework I built and what are the second and third order effects of this narrative decision. For me it is as engaging as the actual game is (sometimes more so).
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