Why High Elves Don't Work: A Primer


(Henitai) #4739

And currently the alliance high elves dont seem to be leading there own narrative. At least by what i have seen.

You are free to give examples.


(Wanobi) #4740

…and yet, you acted like you didn’t know where you’re own reply was. Just pointing out how you could find it.

…and yet, you claimed it wasn’t how it worked.

Not what I said. I’m asking you to post the polling data you seem to have done on the entire playerbase, since you are claiming the requests here and elsewhere are a “minority” or players.

Really? On just about any issue, there the “pro” (for) side, and the “anti” (against) side.

None of the characters in game lead their own narrative. The writing team does that for them. Since we don’t have any fourth wall breaking characters in the universe.

A race going full meta at this point and writing their own story would just take the game’s story even further down than it already is.


(Raktarn) #4741

You really enoy misquoting people, don’t you? Your exact words were…

… which is a bizarre thing to say, and indicates basic economics isn’t really your strong suit. Now you’ve flipped it as if you’re educating me. I assure that’s one field I don’t need your input in.

And you’re claiming they aren’t. Don’t demand someone present impossible evidence if you refuse to do the same for own ridiculous claims.

Right. You made up a blanket term to use as a pejorative against people you disagree with. You’re a mature one.


(Midare) #4742

That’s the thing. Right now, I don’t want anything, despite of what I could wish for. Blizz can barely pay attention to the original 12 races or even bother giving them development, more races means more underdeveloped races… that’s the problem we have already with Allied races.

I love the aesthetics of San’layn, I’ve said this several times. What I don’t love it’s the reusing of models with simple modifications and calling it a “new race”, Kultirans are the only ones that are not like this.
As someone that does art as a hobby, and that works as a designer for a living, that kind of mediocrity just grinds my gears.

So should I go start a campaign to get dark irons in the Horde just because I want them? Or that doesn’t work because they’re “not in the horde”?
Or maybe… I don’t do it because I understand taking something that is already on a side should hold it’s exclusivity.

The ones that are based off night elves, partially, I don’t like the reuse of the face, or the night elf model, but at least is not taking a horde model for a second time… the rest, the one with tattoos, those are just blood elves with tattoos and contact lenses.
Again, half-elves would be more logical, and it would cause no trouble.

Also, if they were to actually pay attention to the WCII area of the story… that’s when the kingdom of Quel’thalas left the Alliance… but that’s one of the WCII things they like to ignore.


(Wanobi) #4743

That’s what started off that whole reply chain. Then you claimed “it’s not how it worked.” And then it went from there.

I’m saying you’re making a strawman argument…and if it’s not, to support your point with the polling data you did from the entire playerbase to prove it. The fact you say it’s “impossible” shows the “minority of players” claim is nonsense. You are the one making the claim (“minority of players”) the burden is on you to prove it.

And if you’d stopped there, you’d be fine…

I didn’t make up anything (pro and anti stances on issues are as old as debate itself)…you are clearly against playable High Elves. I am clearly for them. That would make you and anyone arguing that postiion anti playable High Elf for the purposes of this debate, and me and anyone arguing that position pro High Elf for the purposes of this debate. There’s nothing “pejorative” about it. Stop looking for insult where none was intended.


(Raktarn) #4744

Yeah, I’ve gone back to read some of your posts in a desperate attempt to understand your bizarre point of view, and you’re just flat out lying here.

You’re on the record in this very thread for saying this:

This isn’t even the only example of you referring to your “antis” in this way, but it’s definitely my favourite.

Another misquote. You didn’t even try quoting that one correctly. You’ll have to find someone else to argue with, I’m afraid. I’m outta here.


(Wanobi) #4745

So, no real response just more strawmanning.

First, you’re conflating the pro/anti of debate with the views those particular individuals hold.

Second, their own position has been can be summed up to three key areas (feel free to actually read their own words throughout the thread to confirm this:

1 ) selfishness (“mine, you can’t have it!” multiple comparisons to the blood elves being their “toys” that no one else can have, despite no one wanting blood elves)

2 ) racism (more than one post of thiers has gone on about racial purity of the blood elves, as well as blood elves and High Elves being the same people because they look the same…and that is textbook racism)

3 ) spite (more than one post of theirs has said nearly verbatim: “I’d support High Elves, but I won’t because I don’t like the community”)

That’s their own words. Again, you and anyone else can read throughout the thread where they have said it multiple times.

Hmm, you mean this one:

I not only “tried,” but succeeded. As you said earlier:

It was the same one where you made the whole comparison to High Elves with any random odd request, then you pulled your “minority of players” strawman.


(Toramu) #4746

Exactly. They’re already in the Alliance, something that just dawned on me.

Only the eight base races are already part of their respective factions when the game begins. When a new race gets added to the game, they join their faction through in-game events, usually because that faction helped them in the past. My grasp on the lore is a bit loose, but from what I’ve gathered:

Draenei: Went to Azeroth to join the Alliance, which in turn helped them after they crashed
Blood elves: Horde helped them rebuild their homeland after Arthas’ attack
Worgen: Night elves helped them rejoin the Alliance after Gilneas fell
Goblins: Helped rescue Thrall in exchange for the orcs helping them survive being shipwrecked, Thrall gave them a place within the Horde in turn
Pandaren: Joined the Alliance and Horde after both factions’ help on the Wandering Isle
Void elves: Alliance champion saved them from being fully transformed by the Void, Alleria helped them control their new forms, Alliance harbored them after the blood elves shunned them
Nightborne: Alliance and Horde helped them retake Suramar, joined the Horde due to distrust of the Alliance
Lightforged draenei: Class orders helped them defeat the Legion on Argus, brought into the Alliance by Turalyon
Highmountain tauren: Class orders helped them save their homeland, Baine formally invited them to join the Horde and be with their Mulgore brethren
Dark Iron dwarves: Technically already became affiliated with the Alliance around MoP, but formally joined them in BfA after the Alliance helped them following the Venture Company’s attack
Mag’har orcs: Alliance and Horde saved them from demonic enslavement, they felt honor-bound to repay the Horde for the favor, Horde helped them escape to Azeroth
Kul Tiran humans: Alliance hero united the divided Kul Tiran noble houses
Zandalari trolls: Horde hero helped solve their various problems throughout Zandalar

The Dark Iron example is pushing it a bit but it works because there was actually something to write around them. One of their artifacts got stolen, the player retrieved it. Another of their artifacts got broken, the player helped fix it. There was a separatist group of Dark Irons that still followed Ragnaros, which the player uncovered, then they joined the Alliance for real.

High elves do not possess the same creative clout, because as I’ve pointed out before, there’s not much left to write about them and they don’t come across as a very exciting race to write for anyways. Since they’re already trusted formal members of the Alliance, you can’t have a story of them joining the Alliance and trying to change the opinion of those that don’t trust them. They don’t have any notable artifacts, leaders (other than Vereesa), or capitals because the current Thalassian elf story is already divided between blood elves and void elves. The fact that they’re already Alliance members in a game where new races are organically introduced as joining their factions through storylines in said game hampers their chances of being made playable severely, if not disqualifying them outright.


(Vaelian) #4747

People had asked for subraces for years. They’re finally delivering and people complain.
They’re still adding new races as well where it’s appropriate, just via the same method.

And that’s why people are asking for Alliance High Elves, they have been there since the beginning. People just want to play as them.

I’d thought they were a pretty good compromise.
I still remember when all of the high elf and blood elf models used a night elven rig.

But a lot of elves remained and those are the ones people are wanting. If 12 void elves can be an allied race, then so can High Elves.

So Ogres and Mok’nathal would be out of the question as well?
That makes no sense. The allied race bit is just the system used to add all races now. There’s nothing preventing them from setting up some little questline that works and then allows players to play as a race that has been part of the Alliance for years.


(Wanobi) #4748

…and puts the guy who enslaved them all back in charge, right after deposing them because reasons. This was a really odd writing moment for thrall, considering he was a former slave. It would have been like leaving blackmoore alive and in charge of his internment camp after he escaped.

This. The antis keep going on about “giving the Alliance blood elves,” but that ship actually sailed with void elves. Those were literal cut/paste of blood elves, dyed purple. Remove the void corruption (which has precedent with the fel retcon) and you have Alliance blood elves.

If they had just given the Alliance playable High Elves, no one would actually have their doomsday scenario they’ve been on about.


(Toramu) #4749

I don’t know much about ogres getting in, mok’nathal I don’t seen being a thing because that name specifically refers to a defunct half-ogre clan, and half-ogres on their own probably aren’t very common in lore.

The crux of your entire argument is you being willfully ignorant to mine. Again, it’s a bit difficult to write a storyline for a race that’s already part of a faction to join said faction when every other race released post-launch has been introduced as working alongside their current faction before formally joining it. Vereesa isn’t at the Alliance Embassy, no one there is going to genuinely vouch for a race that’s already fully integrated into the Alliance to join the Alliance again.


#4752

Every time you post this drivel and the thread is locked you make a new thread.

Wait a tick checks and see its a few months old


(Henitai) #4753

You seem to, again, miss the point i was trying to get across.

What i mean by is there is no intreaction with any named important alliance high elves in somthing say, the war campaign. Alleria is a rep of the void elves.

Give ppl a reason to think they are relevent to BfA before adding them in BfA is all im saying.


#4754

Blood elves are high elves. No? What’re blood elves then? They’re the same race. I see people mention ethnicity - well, ethnicity =/= race.

Race: human
Ethnicity: Caucasian, Asian, African, Hispanic, etc.

In this case
Race: high elf
Ethnicity: queldorei, sindorei, rendorei

I’d say it’s bliizard’s fault for using the term ‘race’ rather than ‘ethnicity’. It should be ‘allies’, ‘affiliates’, or ‘allied group’ rather than allied ‘race’

And people keep mentioning ‘silver covenant’. Well, there are Kul tiran that are friendly towards the horde in Tiragarde - the fog sail buccaneers. There are dark iron dwarfs that can be friendly towards the horde - the thorium brotherhood (Yes, I know, they’re initially neutral but can be friendly to horde after completing quests for them).
I don’t see the horde asking for playable Kul Tiran or DI dwarfs, or alliance asking them to be playable by the horde also.

Just because a race/ethnicity/group/whatever is friendly towards you, doesn’t mean they are or should be playable. Particularly if they’re already playable by the opposing faction. Just my thoughts of course.


#4755

So, you’re saying that all arguments presented against you in this thread can only be described as selfish, racist or spiteful? I am amazed anyone has spent any meaningful amount of time discussing this with you.

I’m not necessarily opposed to new races or anything, but… yikes.


(Midare) #4756

I was going to reply to another post but this caught my attention.

So you’re admitting you’ve been flagging this thread because it’s about something you don’t like and, as someone pointed out, seem to have your own issues with people asking for additions?

I truly hope the mods see this, thanks to you, this thread has been under watch from the mods, which is why it keeps being opened.

But putting that aside…

Have you noticed that the HM tauren, the LF draenei, the Mag’har orcs, and the Dark iron dwarves, all that could be considered actual subraces, are on the respective side together with their “Original race”… do you realize that following this pattern, blue eyed blood elves would end up in the Horde, even wehn we already have the green/golden eyed ones?

They’ve never been playable. Those that moved on with their history and legacy, renamed themselves Blood elves and are now in the Horde. Those that were left assimilated with the humans and have had absolutely no development… unless you wish to finally tell me what development they’ve had besides becoming human flavored elves.

They are, if the face was original or closer to night elves or humans, But they’re not high elves, they don’t look anything like high elves.

And that has not been the case for 10+ years… funnily enough, thanks to the introduction of Blood elves.

You want to say that a lot remained. Except that neither new or old resouces say that this “lot” was actually “a lot”.
And besides, population numbers are irrelevant. The kingdom of Quel’thalas seceeded, and after an alliance of convenience, not due to trust and friendship.


(Tyriellais) #4757

Not really. I mean, that’s what’s happening with Kul Titans. They’ve already joined, they’ll just be made playable later, presumably with a new quest. The Dark Irons had joined, it was just made “official”. The Lightforged were under Turalyon’s command, and were otherwise just Draenei, so it was literally just “yo, you ready to report for duty?” The quest had nothing to do with them “joining the Alliance”, but was just an introduction to their culture.


#4758

Forgive me for scrolling through and digging up old posts, but this quote is criminally underrated.


(Hecatone) #4759

This should just be quoted… regularly.


(Lydon) #4760

Wow, we actually stayed open long enough for actual discussion to resume.
Here’s hoping we can keep our respective spaces alive going forward.

My response to the last 50 some posts:

High Elves being added once or twice in a patch is not narrative or story. Merely existing does not constitute narrative or story. Nobody is singing ballads of heroic generic High Elf Shield Mage #4. If my count is right, this brings the High Elf total in BfA to, what…6 or 7? All in background, unimportant, generic roles. I wouldn’t call it meaningful, and much less “High Elves getting paraded” in your face.
One assault or incursion shows more Void Elves doing actual things than every High Elf added in BfA thus far.

I’m sincerely hoping, both for High Elf and Void Elf sake, that they add lore and story to fold High Elves in as Void Elves, which is still very much possible with Alleria.