Why Havoc DH needs to get nerfed soon (in M+ specifically)

Same reason as Destro locks in S3 of SL and Fire mages in 10.1.5: the longer we wait, the more likely keys will be completed that require Havoc DH to complete.

I know it’s early in the season, but I want to make sure we don’t end up like in S3 of SL where we couldn’t nerf destro locks because it would mean the keys timed prior to the nerfs would not be achievable after said nerfs.


Hard to say that leggo axe might balance out a few classes and not everyone has sets yet, kinda to early to say IMO.

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I’ll be pretty annoyed if they don’t have tons of spec tuning ready to roll for reset.

I care less about the DPS disparities and more about the fact my balance druid gets vaporized in 2-3 seconds to 400-600k aoe damage pulses in +20 keys through a garbage 20% DR barkskin while classes with immunities like mage, rogue, and DH laugh all the way to the bank.

8 stacks bursting I get one tapped, a DH just drops darkness and you can rotate 2 darknesses for 2 big pulls, or the aforementioned DPS classes just use an immunity while the healer dispels himself.

It’s not fun being constantly dead because druid, shaman, and priest have garbo defensives and Blizzard nuked Sporecloak out of orbit.

I waste a 1.5 sec cast time to heal for a pititful 10% health with regrowth while the demonhunter in metamorphosis and demonic appetite is healing passively while doing damage for far more and the fire mage gets 3 cheat death mechanics on top of a 120k absorb shield and another 120k absorb shield for the entire group every 2 minutes.


I read the title and want to put my .02 in. Why is it that every time we get ACTUAL changes. That make us want to play the game as a Demon Hunter, the WHOLE COMMUNITY is in uproar because “GAHHHHH DH TOO STRONG NERFS NAOW!” Yet no-bo-dy says a effin thing, about Destro Locks previously, or Pallys, or Assassination Rogues right now?

Just leave us alone, we are fine where we are now, Yeah none of us wanted to be the very top padding the meters, Get Gud. DHs are in a very good spot now, and it takes a whole community to bring us down again. Like… I dont get it.

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enjoy while it last…but nerfs are coming

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You don’t understand how it’s not good for the game to have 2 dps specs blowing the rest away and how bringing them in line with the rest is better for the game as a whole?

Or how, due to infinite scaling, it can make doing higher keys impossible without these vastly strong specs?


Did you also think Exodia on release was fine as well and shouldn’t have been touched?


Idk where you’ve been looking, but a lot of people said plenty of stuff about those too. Assassination might be the one I’ve seen the least complaints about but that doesn’t mean it’s ok to leave them where they are currently.

It’s not really about DHs. There were infinitely more complaints about Fire and Shadow last season and justifiably so. If a spec is such an outlier, it just makes sense to be properly reigned in, which the scheduled Tuesday changes will fail to achieve.

DH are too tanky and have too much utility to also top Single Target and AoE damage.

They’re singularly overtuned and need to be reigned in. And VDH is just as bad. Super nerf Illuminated Sigils. Make it CDR instead of 2 charges.

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I just want to say demonic appetite, which is passive and procs from maintaining your normal offensive rotation, is massively outhealing hybrid cast time heals, especially the awful druid heals for balance and feral druid.

A DH just uses his normal offensive skills and each soul fragment is healing them for more than my pitiful 50k regrowth that makes me stand still for 1.5 seconds and sacrifice an offensive spell cast.

And that’s not even including the leech from soul rending and massive burst self healing from demonic windows every 30 seconds!

Why are warriors, DH, rogues, and DKs significantly outhealing with instant cast offensive skills the actual hybrid cast time spells with opportunity cost of shamans and druids? Retribution paladins at least have better cast heals, but not by much.

DH and Druid are capable of similar healing over the course of a fight. The difference is that a Druid has to stop dpsing to heal that much (and will oom) while a DH does it passively from maintaining their dps rotation for free.

It’s like they balanced by looking at one variable instead of the whole package.

I mean, obviously havoc needs nerfs, but i’m more concerned about the imbalance with Vengeance than anything else. Being able to solo lockdown an entire caster pack for nearly a minute is completely absurd.


Why does it have to be nerfed?

Why not buff/add to/ change other specs to have similar power as strong classes?

Who cares if we get into higher ranges of keys, like 50 and higher. I’m all for it. Let’s see how high we could push.

Who cares if classes are powerful ? It wouldn’t nearly be quite the issue if every one was strong with strong utility. At that point, it would just be normalized and we would all have similar utility and strengths.

Give healers all Br or Lust, give all tanks BR or Lust. Revert back Exodia. Push more support specs for the future.

Make it fun and enjoyable for people.

I mean, why not? Heaven forbid everyone be super awesome and strong and have fun blasting keys all the way to +100.

We couldn’t possibly have that. That would be the end of the world. /s


Nerf the top, buff the bottom.

Or buff everyone up to the top and buff the content.

Either way, the bars on your damage meters are more balanced.

But I’m beginning to suspect the end of expansion maintenance team has wildly edgy views on balance. M+ looks way to much like S3 Shadowlands. Just going to be a DH - BM - AUG or go home type of season.

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Havoc and BM are so far ahead of anything else in M+, it’s just as bad or worse than Fire+Shadow in S2, because at least those two specs took effort, whereas Havoc and BM are braindead specs, one entirely mobile and ranged without casts, the other with a simple rotation and massive self healing making healers almost unnecessary for them on top of outrageously strong utility in CC and group mitigation on top of chaos brand.

The only thing that needs to be nerfed is Fel Barrage. It’s hilariously overtuned, it’s unfun, it doesn’t line up with anything and feels awful to play.

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Even post nerf top 5 damage source for Havoc goes Death Sweep followed by Soul Scar. That is, a metamorphosis aoe skill is the top damage source, followed by a cleave skill’s dot from an overtuned talent. Chaos Strike usually 3rd damage source in a boss parse.

So Havoc’s aoe skills are also topping single target, that’s clear evidence of overtuned kits and talents. Nerf soul scar and nerf the ST damage of FB.

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