Why even rework a class if you are just going to nuke it from orbit days later?

[Fevirin-hellscream (Fevirin)]

I didn’t say good I said bugged. Not everyone got good bugs, but basically everyone I know was complaining about some bug or another to their class. And wowhead for the first time I think I’ve ever seen is making posts on how bugged classes are this patch.

@Fevirin-hellscream

Yes, it came out overtuned, just like everyone else this patch it came out bugged

The point I was making is that this patch started with all kinds of bugs ele for better or worse got ones that inflated its value a fair bit in contrast to some specs where their talents don’t work as described.

[Keymah-moon-guard]

@Fevirin-hellscream

So, to begin this is about ele shaman. Yes, it came out overtuned, just like everyone else this patch it came out bugged and day one it had vods of ridiculous damage that wasn’t really representative of reality because one day later we got hit by a significant aoe and single target nerf, and had some positive bugs fixed, and those 25 mil vods had aug+hero+40 stack spymasters (why hasn’t this trinket been nerfed yet for real?) Even then some targeted aoe nerfs were appropriate.

Sometime later blizzard announces mass class tuning and ele shaman are apparently just getting gutted in single target set to be competing with aug, and aoe is going down to “you only take us for our aoe, but our aoe is nothing special” levels. Also, it seems we will once again be changing our stat priority despite just having our worst stat (haste>crit>>>vers>mastery) before rework to best stat (mastery>>haste>crit>>>vers) to now (mastery>crit>>haste>>vers) after nerfs. Leading to having to swap recraft and change our gear again or more realistically just straight up drop ele and take advantage of our reworked stats being conveniently close to the spec blizzard historically wants us to play- enhancement.

Most frustrating of all though last week elemental shaman was in a solid place. We did good damage; we had two hero talents that worked in different places and were good enough to be somewhat interchangeable in content ie you could use farseer or stormbringer in m+ and justify it without looking like a clown or a fool. After the rework we were tuned high and had one hero talent to work with its just stormbringer all the way down, the talents that made farseer work were just pruned with the rework. And following the nerfs we are now undertuned, drastically even, with two bad hero talents because blizzard couldn’t help themselves from taking pot shots at stormbringer quality of life passives while they were in their likely very exciting brainstorm session on how to nerf ele into the ground. Within a week ele went from an acceptable and playable spec to overtuned to back to its usual cave because we were reworked AND tuned into a bad spec. And caveat here the rework had a lot of cool ideas and I generally liked some of the changes, aside from the whole doing lots of damage thing, I did lots of damage before and I was having fun before the rework I don’t see myself having fun after tuesday because I don’t like doing negative damage on a character that I have hit gilded crest cap on.

In conclusion I am looking at the class and spec I’ve played most of tww and feeling angry that it was reworked at all because the impetus of ele being brought to its historically low level of value was a rework that happened when we were in a pretty cozy and acceptable spot to begin with that occurred midway through the season. I thought reworks were supposed to improve gameplay, but now my damage profile, my stat weights, are completely different, and in response to a general lack of careful tuning my damage is going too. What even was the point of all that work when you could just auranerf us down 15% if you’d rather us didn’t play ele and save yourselves what is likely a lot of work that could have gone to bravely making bladestorm the first spell with a 4-target cap?

Tldr: Why bother reworking a class and putting resources into a class if you are going to leave it in a place well below prerework levels within a week? It’s insulting to everyone playing this game if that is the standard of class balance we are working with.

[Fevirin-hellscream (Fevirin)]

I was nice enough to give you a tldr and conclusion and you apparently have the time to look for a reaction image to post emphasizing your lack of time to read my post. Smh…

[Ventorath-wyrmrest-accord]

So here’s a question:

Do we think Blizzard is tuning Ele, particuarly in single target, based on data while the Ascension Bug is still active?

Because they stated it was being fixed in the same hotfix as the Lightning Rod nerf, but it was not fixed.

Are the numbers they’re running with accounting for the fact that it’ll be another -9% single target damage once it IS fixed? Or are they just blindly balancing based on current logs and we’re effectively getting that extra 9% nerf for no reason?

Similarly, it’ll actually be an AoE BUFF once it is fixed. Is AoE not the bigger issue right now?

Also, Ele ST Burst is crazy, which leads to stupid high Boss DPS in M+. But it evens out a LOT in longer ST Raid Encounters since that window with Hero/Pot/All CDs with Ascendence is really only the once on pull. Are they considering Raid DPS or M+ DPS with ST nerfs? Because they are not at all the same.

[Akston-area-52]

@Debbyfrowner-thrall

I want them to give elemental permanent pet. Earth ele for solo content to tank and switch to fire ele for raid or whatever. Idc how it gets done make it happen.

Please no

Do not turn ele into a pet class.

[Fevirin-hellscream (Fevirin)]

This is my personal take, but I feel like they have to be tuning by feel to a certain extent simply because practical numbers haven’t been out long enough to form a conclusion, and also just based off of the whole tuning numbers happening at all before mass bug extermination.

It feels like a more “prevent god comp” hysteria change rather than anything that is justified through data analysis.

I think the big nerfs were announced a day after the first nerf and bug fix which could have lasted a bit longer, and the data I’ve seen after the initial lightning rod nerf didn’t suggest ele needed anything close to the heavy-handed stuff we’re getting. If anything, we should have gotten targeted aoe nerfs to chain lightning or earthquake or even something to mess with spymasters since they have shown they can tune trinkets to be worse for tanks they could just nerf spymaster’s for ele since ascendance goes crazy off it.

[Debbyfrowner-thrall]

@Akston-area-52

Please no

Do not turn ele into a pet class.

It already is a pet class except the pets have a cooldown

[Akston-area-52]

@Debbyfrowner-thrall

It already is a pet class except the pets have a cooldown

Sigh.

Within the context of the conversation, we both know a “pet class” means a perm pet class.

“its a pet class because it has a pet 15% of the time” is not the same thing.

You know this. I know this.

No one considers Shadow Priest, or any other “summons a pet temporarily” class as a pet class.

[Valkillmoore-ashkandi]

They’d have to actually play the game to understand what’s happening in it. It’s become increasingly apparent over the years that they can’t stand to play their own game.

[Debbyfrowner-thrall]

@Akston-area-52

Sigh.

Within the context of the conversation, we both know a “pet class” means a perm pet class.

“its a pet class because it has a pet 15% of the time” is not the same thing.

You know this. I know this.

No one considers Shadow Priest, or any other “summons a pet temporarily” class as a pet class.

It’s different though because spriest doesn’t have a pet bar with pet abilities. Pet bar = pet class

[Snowpine-ghostlands]

@Debbyfrowner-thrall

It already is a pet class

? This isn’t even true in the way you mean it. Elemental is essentially a steroid CD with the flavor of a summoned elemental.

[Debbyfrowner-thrall]

Right and how much of your damage comes from the elemental

[Snowpine-ghostlands]

Right now? A pittance, because they’re not running Primal.

Unless something has changed, I suppose - in fairness I haven’t been keeping up on Ele. Just Enh.

[Moondoggíe-faerlina]

they dont play their game at all mate

[Debbyfrowner-thrall]

@Snowpine-ghostlands

Right now? A pittance, because they’re not running Primal.

Unless something has changed, I suppose - in fairness I haven’t been keeping up on Ele. Just Enh.

Same. Been playing affliction and my pet does at most 4% of my damage.

[Boomdoggle-zuljin]

@Fevirin-hellscream

Why even rework a class if you are just going to nuke it from orbit days later?

1. To keep players on their toes.
2. Pure incompetence x lack of testing.

[Akston-area-52]

@Debbyfrowner-thrall

It’s different though because spriest doesn’t have a pet bar with pet abilities. Pet bar = pet class

Ele sham, by default, does not have a pet bar with pet abilities.

[Twinblood-bleeding-hollow]

“came out overtuned, just like everyone else this patch” lol I must’ve missed the RDrood tuning, while playing Resto this whole time. xD

[Lavo-bloodscalp]

Its called balance. Its not hard to understand. Stop whining. Its beyond hilarious how many of you think this is forum worthy.

[Fevirin-hellscream (Fevirin)]

@Fevirin-hellscream

, just like everyone else this patch it came out bugged

A nerf was fine, but having my class have its stat weights reset twice to do aug damage in single target is not. A rollback would have even been preferable since ele was in a fine place to begin with.