Certainly, there have always been “go go go” types of players, and the timers now reward that type of behavior.
For me this game was never a race.
3 Likes
Timers are good, and absolutely necessary.
Blizzard just has a tendency to quadruple down on certain game mechanics. Keep timers in M+, but they don’t need to be everywhere.
Stop focusing on the timer. My point is if you CAN complete a +15 dungeon without a timer it should upgrade + you get loot. If you CAN complete a +15 with a timer you should get an upgrade + loot and an additional reward. I don’t know what that reward should be, it’s just an idea.
Either way you’re progressing.
3 Likes
Then put the enrage timers on the dungeon boss duh !!!
Before you say lust/ hero, well guess what. No guarantee you get the kill even with that .
If you gonna wait 10 mins for every pack pull that is about 4 to 5 hours to complete M+ worse as you go higher. Do you expect GO GO GO to wait that long when they can’t even wait for the healer to top up and expect them to do it on the go ?
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and at some point you’ve failed enough timers (but still completed the dungeon) that you’ve got a +23 key you can’t even clear the first trash pack on and no way to bring it back down to a reasonable level
1 Like
Because I don’t see mmorpgs as an esport. I didn’t see Gandalf take out his stop watch in the Mines of Moria and say “Bonus loot if we do this faster!”.
Its stupid. Get this trash and the people who like it out of the game. They can go play MOBAS and Diablo. Give MMORPGS back to people who actually like RPG’s
15 Likes
Just playing devils advocate, but just add another way to downgrade the key then? Like a manual downgrade.
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Why not? Failing a key is still failing a key. If you start it and leave your key would drop. Killing all the bosses shouldn’t be a fail though
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… the fact that it scales up and has seasons? There’s no reason a key can’t upgrade with a successful final boss kill even without a timer. If that means buffing boss mechanics to act as performance checks short of an arbitrary timer, or loot thresholds being adjusted, that’s fine.
2 Likes
None of the above for many. Don’t pretend to know why others dislike something. For me and many others it’s simply this reason right here:
It just isn’t fun. I despise the go, go, go mentality that has become so commonplace in this game these days. Dungeons and raids used to be engaging and fun years ago. Now it’s all about go as fast as you can. For many, many people, that just isn’t fun at all. I avoid dungeons and raids almost entirely now because of it.
I remember coming back to this game after an extended break years ago. It was the first time I had experienced a dungeon where people went through it as fast as possible. The particular dungeon I had done a number of times when it was live in TBC. I had not played in two years or more. I come back, did a TBC dungeon and I remember leaving it in complete shock at how fast it was done. I hated the experience so bad I almost quit again right on the spot. I bet it turns many, many new players away. The only reason I didn’t quit right then again was because I knew the game had more to offer, thankfully.
These days I play casually questing, working on achievements, collecting mounts, pets, etc. I have almost zero desire to do dungeons or raids anymore, and it’s all because of the horrible go, go, go mentality that has taken over. Dungeons and raids used to be some of my favorite things to do in this game years ago. I used to especially love healing. I hate it now. Following a tank who doesn’t stop for one second so I can actually heal them, can’t loot or anything. I have more things that are enjoyable to spend my free time on.
16 Likes
I am good with the timer.
I ran 4 last week (M2, M3, M3, M5) and passed each one easily before the timer expired.
This week I ran a (M2, M4, M3, M2 - ToP). Each was easy to beat the timer except for M2 ToP for some reason. We still completed it, just didn’t get the time bonus.
I guess the timer push gets crazy intense with M7 and higher but that’s a bus I doubt I will be riding. 
Well Gandalf would have gotten a bonus if they were a little faster.
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sorry i thought it was obvious that my post (like every other post in this thread) wasn’t meant to be an exhaustive list of every single possible reason
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I didn’t fail any timers because the keys I’ve selected to do didn’t have any. If I can’t complete a +23 key then that means I just need to gear up, try again, work harder, etc. No different then timing a +22 key but not being able to get past the first trash pack in a timed +23. The level of difficulty won’t change the only thing I’m talking about taking away is the timer for those that dislike it and keeping it for those that do.
More options isn’t a bad thing.
Timers create people who quit your key. Have it happen regularly. Had a player just a couple days ago quit when we had 8 min left to kill last boss and said “I dont need a 1+” and left us all there on last boss because it wasn’t “faster” than another time he ran it. I don’t have a problem with timers if you fix the leavers. Should be an automatic one day suspension on any dungeon for leaving a key under a timer. If you DC…well you have 5 min to come back and finish and the timer can freeze and no one can progress in the dungeon until you return. If you don’t return in 5 min…enjoy your suspension…and the team in the dungoens key doesn’t lose a level.
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No, it wasn’t obvious.
You do a comment with three bullet points acting as if those three reasons are a fact. Maybe add a simple “In my opinion” to that.
Personally, I’ve never been a fan of Time Attack/Time Trial modes in games. You could ask that about a lot of things in WoW, though. Why don’t some people care about quests/story/lore? Why do some people only PvP in an obviously PvE-oriented game.
I like to increase ilvl by doing dungeons with increasing difficulty, but I don’t consider a speedrun system to be the best.
Defeating bosses in depleted keys don’t make sense, no progress felt when defeating on high difficulty. But we both agree that it feels that way in classic.
What there should be, is that the speedrun is completely optional and get items that are 1 ilvl less or not much noticeable difference in that they do, and that the difficulty of the dungeon increases in each encounter until you can no longer.
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Some of us just prefer the older days of being able to take dungeons at our own pace and have a good time. The dungeons could still be made challenging (Blizz literally nerfed Cata heroics because people complained), but the timer, for some of us, has kind of ruined dungeons. It feels more like the M+ decision was made for money reasons (esports) than it was as some grand solution for “fixing dungeons”.
The thing is, WoW had timed dungeons already with Challenge Modes. There’s no reason why Blizzard couldn’t have found a way to expand upon that system and make it something that players that are looking for a time-based challenge can enjoy and get good rewards from. Now Challenge Modes are gone, and it’s just M+ with no alternative. I’m personally not a fan of that.
8 Likes
I hate the timers but I don’t know if I would want them to be removed entirely because I know there’s a lot of players who enjoy that content. The cats out of the bag already and I’m all for players having different options of enjoying the game.
I wonder if a satisfying compromise could be to have the timer kick in on higher level mythics (say +13 or 15 or something). That way it still kind of keeps that competitive feeling at the higher end for players who enjoy that. It would be like getting an additional affix.
1 Like