"Why don't more people pvp?"

100% pve player here forced to engage with pvp by a rep token this week.

To preface i do not like pvp in wow but i will give any game mode a fair shake.

So im the worst possible person to offer an opinion i definitely get that.

I joined several groups today to do the “Spark” quest and everyone of them was being graveyard camped by what i can only assume are competent pvp’ers.

There was a chance for the pvp community to gain some bleed over players with the forced interaction with this quest and its been completely squandered.

I wont really pretend to know or offer any solutions just that i often see the title of this post and its followed by dooming on the game mode.

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How did it force you?

Do you mean the “Sparks of Life” quest? The wPvP one?

That’s how the sparks of life quest works.

You go to a high population area in a group and kill other players for sparks.
The farm groups set up near graveyards for quick resurrections.
You’ll find massive numbers of groups doing it and you’ll die, a lot.
Hopefully, they’ll die a lot too. Everyone gets their sparks.

You can also get sparks from world quests in that zone and from the dragonscale expedition dig sites. If you really don’t want to PvP.

And you’re at a significant disadvantage if you’re not wearing any PvP gear.
Because everyone else is.


unironically the solution is to git gud
only the strong survive


You’re not forced to. You don’t get to say, “I’m forced to!” if you’re doing it just to min/max on reputation for the augment runes.

Anyone min/maxing anything doesn’t get to complain about “forced”. I could see your point if you got a heroic ilvl piece of gear out of this, but you don’t.

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World pvp wasn’t given much thought in this game so you can’t judge regular pvp based on the nonsense you see in wow wpvp. The three main offerings of wow wpvp are kill players, kill an NPC in a pvp designated area, or grab a war crate. It’s about as generic and basic as you can get. And those with the most buffs will generally kill the most players.

If Ashes of Creation ever comes out, that will be the game where world pvp is designed from the ground up as something more than many of the pathetic full loot pvp games of the past.

And one last comment. There are plenty of people pvping in the blitz brawl thing. I was getting almost instant queues during primetime and waiting only few minutes during non prime time.

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you would think that but it’s actually the opposite

This goes to show how poorly thought out the system was.

Seriously, how hard could it be to make it so players who recently died will not give sparks again for something like 30 seconds. And to make it fair, they also can’t gain sparks for 30 seconds after they rez. At least this would stop the killing of people who just died. Not sure it would solve the overall problem.

The problem with pvp (gearing) is someone has to be farmed for it to work.

The players being farmed quit pvp, because it’s miserable and they get no rewards.

This has been escalating since Burning Crusade and now pvp is a miserable sweatfest comprised of only the most vicious players.


The spark grinding ‘meta’ isn’t really about competent players smashing less competent players. It basically boils down to ranged classes spamming AoE on the GY farming any melee that don’t get invited to a full group (which is most melee because LFG groups are usually only inviting casters for easy farming).

Well I mean, that’s basically on blizzard for how they’ve designed nearly every PvP system for like 15 years. Anyway, it’s not forced. But as a general rule you do get more out of the game for being a well rounded player who engages with multiple systems. If you’re really trying to be a sweaty min/maxer though, I can see how you might FEEL forced.

PvE’er that never PvPs tries PvP and gets demolished… expected because its GY camping giving you the tokens right now. Just like if i was to go try some PvE dungeons or dragonslaying computer fighting, i know nothing about the mechanics. i stand in the fire and die. same same.

I would suggest if you’d like to try PvP, try on a more level playing field like arena or BGs. world PvP GY farming is no fun

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this doesnt exist in pve?



If you wear PvE gear and try to PvP , you will get destroyed. The versatility stats on the PvP gear will doom you even if you are wearing BiS PVE stuff

Well that’s mostly because the PvP ilvl kicks in, which is equivalent to heroic raid / mythic raid ilvl (476 / 489)

The average PvE player isn’t going to have mythic raid ilvl. The versatility, like you mentioned, is another factor I guess, but if the PvE gear is mythic ilvl AND has versatility on it, at that point the only disadvantage the PvE player has is not having the PvP trinket set bonus. (unless they do run that in which case they’re on par with a PvP player.)

I guess to chime in on the OP, there is always going to by graveyard campers. At some times in the season more than others. Its not fun, Im not a particular fan of it and have only done so unintentionally, or someone keeps rezzing to try and get me while Im just near by. Others, of course, are not as kind. Us PvPers are tired of it too, dont worry.

Forced interaction, not that I’d call this forced, isn’t the way to encourage participation anyway. Its giving folks things to do, toys, mounts, and cosmetics for folks to collect. PvP WQs/Dailies are fun, sure, but needs a bit more, something to actively fight over.

  • The old towers like in EPL, Hellfire, Terrokar, etc is one way. A small buff to keep fighting over back and forth is a personal favorite suggestion. We saw these on smaller scales in Southern Barrens and Twilight Highlands too, but far more localized.
  • Placing two opposing bases on opposite sides of a shared questing area helps facilitate this too. Its a design choice that curates organic WPvP
  • Non-sanctuary hubs out in the world help too, like the PvP venders back in MoP. A place folks gather and you know you can get a fight.
  • Similarly, creating PvP themed PvE quests near and around opposing bases helps organically facilitate it, like Isle of Thunder.
  • World Defense coming back, knowing where people are at and attacking.
  • Removing Chromie time and instead just allow the whole world to scale 1-max/previous expansion’s max
  • Equalizing WPvP between players gears, or making introduction gearing more obvious/easier. As mentioned, we’re not going to get PvE-ers to join in if they’re getting melted just trying to farm up the gear to participate.
  • World events/campaigns. This is something taken from all my days on Emerald Dream, Grobb, and now MG. Create official week - two week long events, maybe even a month, in an old zone. Turn off flying, auto flag for PvP (War Mode on or off), disable raids from zoning in (somehow), and just have small stories and quests to do that revolve around PvP styled PvE and actual PvP. BFA would have been the ideal time to introduce this, and they kinda did with Warfronts, but really expand that system and keep it current to a degree. For X amount of time, that zone is a war zone.

Far more carrots, far less sticks.

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All good ideas.

World pvp has been dead for a long time for several reasons, but if the company doesn’t care about that aspect of the game, and the general playerbase doesn’t, then there’s not much the rest of us can do about it. :confused:

Oh you sweet summer child, you think people in mass wPvP check to see if you don’t give sparks? Red = dead. Fling spells first, ask questions later.

But seriously, this wouldn’t stop people from killing people again just to check. Even then, if the “no spark credit” player can attack you, you’re still killing them.


Well I don’t think anyone mentioned this, but, you don’t need to do WPVP for the sparks quest. Just do the world quests in that zone, kill rares, or find the treasures scattered (expedition pack, smelly trash, the Emerald dream one)


War mode is a joke. Only best to suffer for tokens then turn it off.

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I barely use it anymore. Every time I go out it’s just whatever zone/quest being graveyard camped by guilds who use shard hopping to find one where there’s no resistance.

When premades can basically shop for a shard so they can grief without the appropriate PvP response to a PvP problem, the system is just broken.