Bingo.
People who think wow is p2w simply adjust the definition to make it more broad. But as you noted it lacks the key “winning” feature.
Humans…
1 Like
That just doesn’t hold any water. Rampant cheating is a separate issue. If someone bought a wow token and had a chance to get banned, then this would make sense. Saying that since games have cheating, pay to win is okay is simply disengenuous. Also, no one was getting decked out in top tier gear for handing guilds botted gold.
Also one of the biggest problems with pay to win is the fact that the games are designed around it. The mechanics are meant to feel intentionally bad So that you might be inclined to break out the wallet. This is not a variable in heavily cheated games. There’s just no comparison. Using cheating as an excuse to excuse P2W is ridiculous. And the very definition of exploiting a slippery slope.
Okay but I haven’t been saying pay to win is okay regardless of if there is cheating in the game or not.
So I’m not really sure what you’re on about here.
You said that vanilla was pay to win because of cheating. I’m explaining how that’s nonsensical. It’s a common tactic used by pay to win supporters so I’m treating it as such
In Arena, sure, I can see that. But most people play random BGs. Skill matters less there than arena, and gear matters arguably more. Threads were popping off this year for retail and classic where people were upset about undergeared players joining BGs, because they were getting 1 shot.
You’re not even really explaining how it’s nonsensical. You’re just saying that cheating doesn’t justify adding P2W, which is not a point I ever disagreed with.
My point about including vanilla in the P2W label is more an argument of “a rule that isn’t enforced is barely actually a rule”. I am in no way, shape, or form saying that makes it okay to make a game P2W.
Quite the opposite: I’m advocating that they actually enforce the rules and remove the P2W stuff in retail.
Wanna raid? Get gear
Need gear? Fill your m+ vault
Can’t run m+? Buy a boost
Don’t have gold for a boost? Buy a wow-token with real money
congrats you just paid to win access to raiding
2 Likes
You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
You didn’t grow.
You didn’t improve.
You took a shortcut and gained nothing.
You experienced a hollow victory.
Nothing was risked and nothing was gained.
It’s sad that you don’t know the difference.
this ain’t sekiro fampai
Still applies here.
Cheating is literally not pay to win. It’s cheating. Pay to win describes a mechanic written into a game (very important part right there) where you can pay for advantages over non paying players.
1 Like
Way I see it is that they just bought the experience that people in your league just sold, making it worthless.
Well, players will be looking to sell as long as there are enough people buying to make it profitable.
If you want to stop players from selling, you really need people to stop buying.
If someone posts “WTB boost”, there will be someone who finds a way to sell it.
Point in case is that it’s a bit foolish to call someone out for “cheating” when players who apparently worship their achievements as valuable or significant are just as happy to turn around and sell it to any joe with a sack of cash and gold.
Probably because we can tell the difference between boosted and earned achievements.
That is happens at all speaks loudly of the hypocrisy at work here.
“Win” what?
No raid team/pug is going to take you once they review your logs.
You’ve paid for no “win”… you know, the key part of p2w
1 Like
Earning an achievement: win (sort of)
Buying an achievement: not a win
Buying and calling it a win: cheating yourself.
You can’t tell people what winning is.
Somebody could say that “winning” is buying one of those starter swords from the vendors in Orgrimmar, and that since you bought that sword, wow is “P2W”.
But everybody else will think you’re crazy…